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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
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Location: texas
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 Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Jesus Christ |
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Christ means Savior. Jesus was sent by His Father. He did not come down here on His own like He says very clearly. He volunteered to do it and His Father approved. Why does He need approval if He is equal to His Father?
Why does it matter so much to you arguing about your trinity and how important to accept your trinty as Christians? That's not what Jesus says and you are ignoring Him; how blasphemous. Who do you think you are?
Christianity is all about believing Jesus and accepting His forgiveness of our sins. It is not about Him being God Himself.
You trinitarians are focusing your own theology insatead of Jesus being Lamb of God. Shame on you, trinitarians.
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Viperlord
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Somewhere beyond here...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| joyful wrote: |
| He volunteered to do it and His Father approved. |
Where do you read this? I thought the Father decided on his own.
| joyful wrote: |
| Why does it matter so much to you arguing about your trinity and how important to accept your trinty as Christians? |
Why does it matter so much to you?
| joyful wrote: |
| That's not what Jesus says and you are ignoring Him; how blasphemous. Who do you think you are? |
I think that is what Jesus says.
| joyful wrote: |
| Christianity is all about believing Jesus and accepting His forgiveness of our sins. It is not about Him being God Himself. |
True. But he is still part of God.
| joyful wrote: |
| You trinitarians are focusing your own theology insatead of Jesus being Lamb of God. |
We know that Jesus is the Lamb of God. It is boring to focus on things I already know.
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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1376
Location: texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| Viperlord wrote: |
Where do you read this? I thought the Father decided on his own. |
Oh come on now, God never force anyone to do anything. Just like we have choice not to follow Him. God is gving everyone free will to be His servant and we also have choice to refuse to cooperate with Him. All God's people and Spirite beings are volunteers.
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Why does it matter so much to you? |
Because they are persecuting my brethren calling them heretical and cults. I will not just watch them bullying my brethren around. I don't just sit here and minding my own business. I love my brethren too much for that. God gives me compassionate heart for my brethren.
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True. But he is still part of God. |
Of cours He is. He is God's perfect representative but He is not God. God is only one.
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We know that Jesus is the Lamb of God. It is boring to focus on things I already know. |
But you are persecuting poeple who are being obedient to Jesus with their actions, and all you are good at is arguing about doctrines. Jesus does not care about your doctrines. He cares if we are fruitful. It seems obvious you are fighting against faithful ones because you have nothing to show to Jesus. It seems very much like what pharisees did in NT times to Jesus and His disciples. Only you are doing it different way. |
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Viperlord
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Somewhere beyond here...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| joyful wrote: |
| Oh come on now, God never force anyone to do anything. Just like we have choice not to follow Him. God is gving everyone free will to be His servant and we also have choice to refuse to cooperate with Him. All God's people and Spirite beings are volunteers. |
He does not force, but he does give commands. Perhaps the Father commanded, and Jesus obeyed?
| joyful wrote: |
| Viperlord wrote: |
| True. But he is still part of God. |
Of course He is. He is God's perfect representative but He is not God. God is only one. |
That Jesus is part of God is sufficient. I have another way of looking at it, but it is too complicated to be important.
| joyful wrote: |
| But you are persecuting poeple who are being obedient to Jesus with their actions, and all you are good at is arguing about doctrines. Jesus does not care about your doctrines. He cares if we are fruitful. It seems obvious you are fighting against faithful ones because you have nothing to show to Jesus. It seems very much like what pharisees did in NT times to Jesus and His disciples. Only you are doing it different way. |
Arguing about doctrines is good work. That is what you are doing here!
We cannot be fruitful by our own power. We are saved by grace, not by works. Fruit is not what Jesus demands of us - rather, it is what comes naturally when we do what he demands of us.
I am not here to attack you. I have come to come to an agreement with you. I am not a warrior; I seek to reconcile. But for people to reconciled, often ideas must be defeated.
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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| Viperlord wrote: |
He does not force, but he does give commands. Perhaps the Father commanded, and Jesus obeyed? |
You have point.
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That Jesus is part of God is sufficient. I have another way of looking at it, but it is too complicated to be important. |
Part of God is not enough to say He is God.
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Arguing about doctrines is good work. That is what you are doing here! |
I am only spreading Jesus messages, and not doctrines. I am fighting against man-made doctrines.
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| We cannot be fruitful by our own power. We are saved by grace, not by works. Fruit is not what Jesus demands of us - rather, it is what comes naturally when we do what he demands of us. |
It does not come naturally. We have to have obedient heart and ask God to help us to be fruitful. Jesus is expecting our fruitfulness. Jesus says very clearly to be faithful to Him until the end.
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| am not here to attack you. I have come to come to an agreement with you. I am not a warrior; I seek to reconcile. But for people to reconciled, often ideas must be defeated. |
I hope you are seeking the truth with open and honest heart, or everything you are doing is futile for you and everyone. |
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Viperlord
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Somewhere beyond here...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| joyful wrote: |
| Part of God is not enough to say He is God. |
But what I really mean is that he is part of God. When I say that Jesus is God, I mean it in the same way that I would say that my thumb is me. If someone pulls on my thumb, I might say, "Hey, that's me you're pulling on!"
| joyful wrote: |
| I am only spreading Jesus messages, and not doctrines. I am fighting against man-made doctrines. |
Jesus' messages are doctrines - they are the core doctrines. Man-made doctrines come because people misunderstand Jesus' messages.
| joyful wrote: |
| It does not come naturally. We have to have obedient heart and ask God to help us to be fruitful. Jesus is expecting our fruitfulness. Jesus says very clearly to be faithful to Him until the end. |
Yes, but when we have an obedient heart, God will create fruit through us. What he demands is our obedience. He wants obedience, rather than sacrifice. If we are seeking only to be fruitful, we may do it in a disobedient way - but if we are seeking only to be obedient, the fruit will come.
(I see socionic implications - it may be different for me than for you)
| joyful wrote: |
| I hope you are seeking the truth with open and honest heart, or everything you are doing is futile for you and everyone. |
I am; and I understand that. But I am cautious as well, for there are many lies in this world.
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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| Viperlord wrote: |
But what I really mean is that he is part of God. When I say that Jesus is God, I mean it in the same way that I would say that my thumb is me. If someone pulls on my thumb, I might say, "Hey, that's me you're pulling on!" |
Jesus people are part of Him too. So His people are gods too?
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Jesus' messages are doctrines - they are the core doctrines. Man-made doctrines come because people misunderstand Jesus' messages. |
I guess you are right. But people build up doctrines all out of context. that's why they are so chaotic.
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Yes, but when we have an obedient heart, God will create fruit through us. What he demands is our obedience. He wants obedience, rather than sacrifice. If we are seeking only to be fruitful, we may do it in a disobedient way - but if we are seeking only to be obedient, the fruit will come. |
You are dead wrong. If you are obedient you will make sure everything you do is within His will.
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| I am; and I understand that. But I am cautious as well, for there are many lies in this world. |
If you are serious and sincere servant of Jesus, you know how to protect yourself from deception. that's why God gave His people the Bible. |
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Viperlord
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Somewhere beyond here...
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| joyful wrote: |
| Jesus people are part of Him too. So His people are gods too? |
Yep.  Well, Jesus did say that. It could have been a joke, though.
We are part of God because we have the Holy Spirit (i.e. God) within us, rather than being God ourselves.
| joyful wrote: |
| You are dead wrong. If you are obedient you will make sure everything you do is within His will. |
That is true. But we don't always see why what he wants us to do will produce fruit.
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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
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Location: texas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| Viperlord wrote: |
| joyful wrote: |
| Jesus people are part of Him too. So His people are gods too? |
Yep. Well, Jesus did say that. It could have been a joke, though. |
Jesus never jokes.
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| We are part of God because we have the Holy Spirit (i.e. God) within us, rather than being God ourselves. |
You are going away from what you have said.
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That is true. But we don't always see why what he wants us to do will produce fruit. |
Jesus will help us to see. Thats why it is important to be wholeherated believers, otherwise we are only fooling ourseves and others because we will not get Holy Spirit's help. |
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Viperlord
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Somewhere beyond here...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| joyful wrote: |
| Jesus never jokes. |
I'm sure he had a sense of humor, even if it was never recorded.
| joyful wrote: |
| You are going away from what you have said. |
True. I must make up my mind...
Jesus must somehow be God in some way that we are not, because he is the only begotten son. Jesus is the same as God in some way that no one else is - they are the same sort of thing. That may be what the Trinity was meant to express in the first place.
| joyful wrote: |
| Jesus will help us to see. Thats why it is important to be wholeherated believers, otherwise we are only fooling ourseves and others because we will not get Holy Spirit's help. |
We don't need to see. When you know what you need to do, do you need to know what the results will be? So long as what you do is right...
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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
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Location: texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| Viperlord wrote: |
I'm sure he had a sense of humor, even if it was never recorded. |
I dont know about that, none of the discipeles joked around.
Anyway, that has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus was joking.
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Jesus must somehow be God in some way that we are not, because he is the only begotten son. Jesus is the same as God in some way that no one else is - they are the same sort of thing. That may be what the Trinity was meant to express in the first place. |
Trinit is just another stupid doctrine of RCC.
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We don't need to see. When you know what you need to do, do you need to know what the results will be? So long as what you do is right... |
All we can do is do our best to follow Jesus, then we have hope. Jesus is the onle one who judges. |
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Viperlord
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Somewhere beyond here...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Jesus Christ |
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| joyful wrote: |
| Trinit is just another stupid doctrine of RCC. |
Sometimes stupid doctrines have something good to say! Everything has an element of truth in it, or no one would believe it.
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(didn't know whether you would want to read my speculation or not, so I put it in quotes)
Well, obviously the Trinity is right in saying that the Father is God.
The Bible seems to suggest that Jesus is God in some places, and in other places outright deny that he is. I can well understand why the Catholics would have made something complex like the Trinity to make all the problems go away. I'll try making something simpler.
In Colossians 1:15, Paul calls Jesus the "image of the invisible God." The Father is not part of the universe (he couldn't be, having created it), so he couldn't have lived as a human - or at least, not all of him could. But he packed all of him that would fit into a human body, and called this Jesus. Jesus didn't exactly count as God, since he wasn't all of him, but everything that he was came straight from God. |
Specifically, [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%208:56-]John 8:58[/quote] looks like a claim to godhood.
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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Sometimes stupid doctrines have something good to say! Everything has an element of truth in it, or no one would believe it |
Ok, you believe stupit doctrine of RCC. I won't. RCC is mother of harlots and you are following their doctrine. Jesus says to come out of Babylon.
good day. |
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Viperlord
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Somewhere beyond here...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| joyful wrote: |
Ok, you believe stupit doctrine of RCC. I won't. RCC is mother of harlots and you are following their doctrine. Jesus says to come out of Babylon.
good day. |
The Trinity states that the Father is God. That is true... so the Trinity doctrine says at least one thing that is true.
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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Viperlord wrote: |
| joyful wrote: |
Ok, you believe stupit doctrine of RCC. I won't. RCC is mother of harlots and you are following their doctrine. Jesus says to come out of Babylon.
good day. |
The Trinity states that the Father is God. That is true... so the Trinity doctrine says at least one thing that is true. |
Doctrines have to be whole truth. |
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