Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: Babylon the great
Quote:
It seems that many Christians are not listening closely to Jesus words. Also Pauls words. We are admonished to "test to see if you are in the faith" by Paul. And to: "make sure of all things,.... hold fast to what is fine" My conclusion is that many Christians have been (and are) "sleeping" and not keeping on the watch.
They are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb yet many will find themselves trying to get in the door after Jesus comes and they find it shut. (I believe that they will eventually enter into the kingdom but it will be as if going through fire because they did not build on the foundation (God and Christ) with good building materials. (good doctrine) When they face persecution and hardship, their house will collapse. But even so, the Scripture says that even though their house collapses, they will be saved. Yet I wonder if their opportunity to be found among the *firstfruit* (faithful and discreet) is lost but time will tell.
At this time, my sister and I are closely examining Revelation 11-14. It looks to us as if Jesus does at first (before his revealing to the world) reveal himself to his true disciples. (But not to those who are "sleeping".) Chapter 14 shows that Christ is with the "144,000 and are standing on mt Zion. Then it shows that "two witnesses" (which I believe represents Christians "saints") have to do a prophesying work which looks to me to be giving the 3 warning messages given through the angels.
1) The hour of judgment has arrived, so worship God etc.
2) Get out of Babylon the great
3) keep from getting the mark of the beast
The one doing this prophesying work is seen in sack cloth and ashes. ( A sign of repentance of some sort perhaps? Perhaps it is those foolish virgins who was not ready when Christ arrived?
Here is what Jesus told his disciples in Revelation earlier:
"......"Because you have kept my commandment to endure trials, I will keep you safe in the time of trial which is going to come for the whole world, to test people of the world." See Rev. 3:9
And he also said:
"......."If you do not wake up, I shall come to you like a thief without telling you at what hour to expect me." See Rev. 3:3
So it looks possibly that just as Jesus showed himself only to his disciples, (and not to the world) when he returns, he may only show himself to the "faithful and discreet" when his kingdom comes to rule. Notice that the first angels message at Rev. 14:4-7 is this: The hour of judgment has ARRIVED (judgment day has come) so worship God etc.
And it is during this prophesying work that the kings of the earth fight against Christians (which they can see) (They became wrathful) So it looks to us that when Jesus returns and Gods kingdom begins, that most on the earth will not realize that it has begun. They fight against God, Christ and the kingdom by not obeying those "two witnesses" messages but persecute them.
Notice Rev. 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said: "The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ and he shall reign forever and ever"......."We give you thanks O Lord God the Almighty "...."Because you have taken your great power and did reign, and the nations became wrathful, and thy wrath came, the the time of the dead to be judged, and the time to give reward to your servants, the prophets, and to the saints and all that fear your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."
So it seems very possible that those foolish virgins are the ones who may have to do the last prophesying work which is during the great tribulation when the nations fight against God and the kingdom and those messages. But the faithful and discreet (144.000) are kept in God's safe place while Satan goes off to fight against "the rest of the woman's seed". (See Rev. 12:6-17) See also Psalms chapter 91! (I particularly notice that this is the Scripture Satan quoted when applying it to Jesus when he was trying to get Jesus to do an act of worship to him. And during Jesus life time, it wasn't fulfilled.
Anyway, I may be wrong, yet there could be something to it.
Notice the words at Revelation 14:13:
"....."Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from this hence forth; yea says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors and their works follow them."
Why "from this hence forth"? (which means "from this time on". What about the earlier times that God's people served Him to the death? So it looks as if there is still hope for the "foolish" virgins to gain entrance into the kingdom. They have to prove faithful to the death.
Not only this, but just look at the churches (Christians) in those churches. Many are so judgmental and think that only they have the truth or are the true Christians. They point the fingers, they show a lack of love, many believe that only those in their church will be saved. (much like the WTS teach) Yet what does it look like God may do? He may humble them and make them go to to those other churches to proclaim to them : "Get out of her My (God's) people" to get saved. Much like Saul (before he became Paul) he persecuted and prejudged the Gentiles. He was mad at the Jews who became Christians because they were inviting the Gentiles (non Jews) to be saved. He thought that only the Jews could be saved. So God humbled him and especially used him to invite the Gentiles to be saved. Paul did say that he was used as an example to show God's mercy.
Hitomi, this may all be speculation, ( I wouldn't teach it as fact) but it could be possible.....
But what we know is that many of the Christians in the churches are sleeping and are not keeping awake. Many will not be ready when Christ comes. And we see that there will be a last preaching work. Possibly the "faithful and discreet" won't have to suffer through the coming "test" or tribulation. Wouldn't that be great? (If we are living at that time and could be spared?) So I want to be very careful to obey Jesus commandments and his warnings:
"If a man serves me, he must follow me, where ever I am, my servant will be there too." [John 12:26]
"......." Every branch in me that bears no fruit gets cut away" [John 15:1]
"If you remain in me and my words remain in you"....." [John 15:7]
"....." If you keep my commandments you will remain in my love"...."This is my commandment: love one another, as I have loved you." ......"What I command you is to love one another" [See John 15]
Hitomi, we see that many Christians are not obeying Christ's commandments but as I said, they point the fingers prejudging and showing a lack of Christian fruit. Many have taken on great titles (The Catholic church for an example) (going against God's words) and have elevated themselves over their Christian brothers. Also the Watchtower elite.
As we know, the Bible shows that these will be humbled and brought low. And as we can see, most Christians have been misled and have broken the covenant given to Abraham, and They are worshiping a different god and not the Most High God. They are not paying attention to what the earlier prophets wrote in the Hebrew Scriptures concerning who God is. They are worshiping Jesus (a man) So if their God is Jesus, then they are indeed misled. Just as Jesus said:
Many are invited, but few will be saved.
Sorry that this post is so long. I just wanted to share with you what I am seeing so far in Scripture concerning the "foolish virgins". When we put faith in Christ and believe that God resurrected him from the dead, then we are put in the book of life. But just as Jesus warned, our names can be taken out of that book. We can become a "broken branch".
I don't believe people who are not living repented life is going to have another chance; or it will not be fair to other who is not going to make it. Or are you suggesting all people is going to be in His kingdom?
It seems that you misunderstand me. I don't believe that all people will find life because there are some people who are wicked both through and through. Just look at all of the habitual child molesters and rapists and murderers who actually love doing harm to others. But what about those who were good hearted but who were "misled" or who have done impulsive grave sins. (David for instance) David repented before he died, so it looks as if he will definitely be part of Abraham's seed (Jesus seed) But those who didn't repent before it was too late and they lost their lives because of the nations who rose against Israel such as Babylon, Assyria, and finally the Romans. It looks as if God Himself speaks as if they have already paid for their gross sins because of the strong punishment God brought against them. (Death) God also tells them that he will "redeem" them and take away their sins, (Sins of their youth) and when he brings them back to their land He will give to them a new covenant which would take away their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh and they will serve Him.
It does look like when they are resurrected, they are not given a resurrection to life (immortal life) but to judgment. God said that those who rebelled against him in those many ways , especially those who made him jealous over their false gods, that in the future, he would make them jealous over a nation that is no nation. The kingdom is not given to these such ones, but when they are resurrected, they will "be ashamed". (Weeping and wailing over their lost inheritance.) like Esau when he lost his inheritance as the "firstborn". The unfaithful disobedient Jews lose their rights as "firstborn". Jesus called these the "sons of the kingdom". But he said that many who were first "will be last", and the last first."
Jesus told the rebellious unfaithful Jews, "your house is abandoned to you" "and will be given to a nation producing it's fruits"
The faithful (and obedient: Righteous) will be given "double" inheritance. God says that people will see that God rewards the righteous and is a righteous judge of the earth.
This post is a little rough around the edges because I am having to write it in a hurry or else I would provide the Scriptural support.
Even so, you are welcome to post what I have shared with you on your website.
I will subscribe there with the same user name I post with on the Paradise Cafe: Anchor.
You have to remember that no matter how much we try to be good we cannot save ourselves. We need Jesus. So non-believers who are doing good deeds but do not accept Jesus will not be accepted to God's kingdom.
Oh, I was speaking of believers. Yes. All will have to learn of and to believe in and accept our redeemer Christ. When we have the son, we have the Father also. This is why we must accept God's son.
And remember what Jesus says; narrow the gate that leads to life and only a few find it. We should not take light of Jesus warnings and wash down and make it easier to hear. And that's what is going on in the trinity churches. Thats the main reason why my husband and most trinitian churches dont care much about being good witnesses for the Lord. It is a grave sin to wash down the Scripture.
In a nutshell, it is all false religion who reject Jesus. So Christians should strive to warn people who are still asleep and following false religiens including people calling themselves Christians but not following Jesus with all their might and encouraging people that everyone is fine because God is love and just do not judge anyone etc...
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