Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: Miracles, etc
What are some views on some of the claims of divine healing, speaking in tongues, etc. Was this all first century manifestations of the spirit, or has it continued, or is it today all satanic fraud performing great signs and wonders? _________________ reslight.net/forum - bibletoday.com- Divineplan.org - mostholyfaith.com -
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Miracles, etc
freyd wrote:
What are some views on some of the claims of divine healing, speaking in tongues, etc. Was this all first century manifestations of the spirit, or has it continued, or is it today all satanic fraud performing great signs and wonders?
This is what Ronald says:
Not only Jesus, but his twelve apostles as well the 70 disciples that he sent out could heal instantly. Unlike healers today, faith on the part of the one being healed was not always required. Jesus and Paul even raised some from death. These healings were all signs of proof of Jesus' messiahship. We today have the testimony of the Bible writers concerning those miracles. Those physical healings were not fully total, since those healed did eventually die.
And Paul speaks of the gifts of healing. (1 Corinthians 12:9,28,30) It is unclear whether he means spiritual healing of the heart or physical healing, or perhaps both. Also it is unclear as to whether one having such a "gift" could raise the dead.
Nevertheless, miracles of the physical healing type have been reported, not only from professing Christians, but also from many heathen religious groups from almost every corner of the earth. Not all healings are from Yahweh, for Yahweh is allowing the demons to misuse the power He has given them so that they perform many miracles designed to mislead, especially here in the last days. -- 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11; Revelation 16:4,14
The Dawn has some good studies and a video on this, although there are a few points I question in the conclusions given:
It is astonishing to me that if the first century recordings of miracles were all there was to it, and that for the next 1900 years there was to be nothing except demonic misuse of power, so that when people prayed for spiritual gifts that they were really and unwittingly praying to demons, because God wasn't listening, thus abandoned and left to the machinations of demons and/or drugs. That there has been gross misuse of power by demons, does that imply that none of these healings and spiritual gifts were of God? If true, what's the point of even bothering to read Scripture at all if it's said that certain parts are not applicable? Which ones? Where is the line to be drawn, and who was supposed to draw it and when? The Pope? _________________ reslight.net/forum - bibletoday.com- Divineplan.org - mostholyfaith.com -
It is astonishing to me that if the first century recordings of miracles were all there was to it, and that for the next 1900 years there was to be nothing except demonic misuse of power, so that when people prayed for spiritual gifts that they were really and unwittingly praying to demons, because God wasn't listening, thus abandoned and left to the machinations of demons and/or drugs. That there has been gross misuse of power by demons, does that imply that none of these healings and spiritual gifts were of God? If true, what's the point of even bothering to read Scripture at all if it's said that certain parts are not applicable? Which ones? Where is the line to be drawn, and who was supposed to draw it and when? The Pope?
Freyd,
I have the same question, that's why I asked at your forum. Go ask Donald about it.
I believe that our faith is sufficient that we don't need miracle to believe in God and Jesus. Jesus condemned pharisees and others who demanded miracles. Jesus and His disciples showed enough miracles that they are truly from God. This is just my opinion.
I believe that our faith is sufficient that we don't need miracle to believe in God and Jesus. Jesus condemned pharisees and others who demanded miracles. Jesus and His disciples showed enough miracles that they are truly from God. This is just my opinion.
I agree. It's one thing to demand of God and quite another to ask that if it be his will that a person, regardless of whether they are of the 144,000, can humbly ask. This may have to do with the elitism you've experienced.
Matthew 15:22-28 (English Standard Version)
22And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon." But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she is crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." But she came and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, help me." And he answered, "It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs." She said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table." Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.
What is one not in the race for the high calling supposed to make of this?
Then there's Matthew 12:27-29 (New International Version)
"And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." _________________ reslight.net/forum - bibletoday.com- Divineplan.org - mostholyfaith.com -
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