Trinitarians like to conect John 8:58 with EX 3:14.
KJV EX 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
'Ehyeh asher ehyeh' - 'I am that I am'
The King James version of the Bible translates the Hebrew as "I AM THAT I AM" and treats it as a proper name for God. Now, wether or not God Almighty was stating a form of his name or he was expressing a phrase is argued. A better renderings might be "I will be that I will be".
Here's clips from pages that should help also. I recommend reading the whole pages though.
John 8:58 - Did Jesus Use the Holy Name?
....... Actually, Jesus says nothing about claiming that his name is EHYEH of Exodus 3:14. The contextual discussion was concerning Jesus’ age, not his name .......
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/john8-58/
“I am” in John 8:58 and Other Verses
...............When Jesus told them: “Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad,” they replied that He was not yet 50 years old, and how therefore could he have seen Abraham (who died over 2,000 years previously)? He then let them know that his existence was not limited to the years he was spending on earth. Jesus told them that his existence was unbroken from eons before Abraham’s day, and was unbroken thereafter. Hence he could truly say: “Before Abraham was, I am.” Now if he had said he “was”, he would have implied that he existed, but no longer exists.
Regarding this, Paul Johnson [a Hebrew and Greek scholar] states in his book Creation: “Please notice the expression, `I am’ — present tense. Why this? The expression is a Hebrew idiom and is used to express a non-terminated existence, i.e., the existence that Jesus as the Logos had before Abraham lived had never up to the time of His speaking in this text come to an end.” — page 45. .............
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=253
“I am” in John 8:58
.....The purpose is to make the claim that Jesus is a person of triune God. Actually, there is nothing here, or anywhere else in the Bible, about God existing as three separate and distinct persons. Such an idea has to be added to, and read into, what Jesus said.
Was Jesus in John 8:58 quoting from Exodus 3:14? The name in Exodus 3:14 by which Yahweh spoke of himself in its full form is usually transliterated as “EHYEH ASHER EHYEH”. Its short form, which also appears in Exodus 3:14 is simply EHYEH. Was Jesus saying in John 8:58 that his name is EHYEH? Actually, no. The expression in Greek that Jesus used is often transliterated as EGO EIMI. Did Jesus say that this was his name? No, there is no discussion concerning Jesus’ name in John 8:58 nor anywhere in the context. Rather, the discussion is concerning the age of Jesus.
Jesus expressly shows that he is not the only true God who sent him in John 17:1,3. Since there is only one true God, then Jesus, being sent by the only true God, is not the only true God. The only true God who sent Jesus is the One who identified Himself as EHYEH ASHER EHYEH in Exodus 3:14,15.
Exodus 3:14 - God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM [EHYEH ASHER EHYEH],” and he said, “You shall tell the children of Israel this: “I AM [EHYEH] has sent me to you.”
Exodus 3:15 - God said moreover to Moses, “You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.
“I am” in John 8:58 and Other Verses
.........Nevertheless, many claim that Jesus was referring to himself as the “I am” of Exodus 3:14. In reality, there is nothing in John 8:58 to warrant the conclusion that Jesus was claiming to be Ehyeh (or as some perfer, Ehyah) of Exodus. Jesus simply responded to the question: “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Thus, the real thought of the Greek used here is that God’s created “firstborn,” Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born, and that he was still in existence. - Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation 3:14.
.....................
http://godandson.reslight.net/?m=200902&paged=2
Immutability as an Alleged Incommunicable Attribute
.........Exodus 3:14: God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM," and he said, "You shall tell the children of Israel this: "I AM has sent me to you. One could read into this scripture the unchangeableness of Yahweh, but this would depend on the meaning given to the Hebrew phrase "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh", translated "I am who I am" in the World English Bible translation. ...
http://reslight.net/trinityimmutability.html
If you'd like to read lots of other's ideas you can just google/or other search engines "Ehyeh asher ehyeh".
Maybe others here can comment on this so as to explain it in a different way so as to help.
I hope RRD fills up to adding some in reply also; as it always benefits.
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: I am
joyful wrote:
Quote:
John 8:58
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
John 8:57-59
This is incomplete sentence. what is Jesus saying? Trinitarians say YHWH's name is "I am" too. I would appriciate explanation.
I can't give long answers in english.
It is YHWH who gives the answers to every question
through His Son
Matt. 17
5. While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said,
"This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
Well , regarding "trinity" Jesus states clear: " Father is greater than me"
If to someone Jesus' words have not enough "weight" , I have nothing more to say....
Regarding ..."I am" it is valid the point to check the context
Jesus was not speaking there about the Name of His Father or of his own ,
He used that verb , at that "present tense" to tell the fact He "is (still ) existing" from before Abraham was born ,
so , no discontinuity of His existence till the moment of His speaking ...
The only one discontinuity of His life took place at His death , on Golgotha .
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
According to this verse, God's name is I am. Why does it not say YHWH?
Yahweh and Ehyeh (most often "translated" as "I am" in Exodus 3:14) are variations of the one holy name. Both Yahweh and Ehyeh are verb in form, but used as a nounal "name". The infinitive of the verb is hayah, to be (active). Ehyeh is in the first person singular, meaning an active "I am", "I will be", "I become", etc. Yahweh is in the third person singular form of the same verb, meaning "He [who] is", "He [who] will be", "He [who] becomes", etc. Ehyeh and Yahweh should not be considered two different names, but a variation of the one holy name of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Bible never refers to holy names [plural].
The scripture itself does not tell us why God gave his name in two forms, but it appears that it probably has to do with perspective. From God's perspective, his name is Ehyeh, but for our perspective, it is Yahweh.
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
I just found this one too. Why does He say this?A couple of things are being addressed here by God to Moses. God is telling Moses that he is about to act dynamically on behalf of the Hebrews. God expects the Hebrews to also act in response to what He is going to do. Moses must come before his people, whom he hasn't seen in many years and prove that he is the chosen one to be their leader. The title I Am That I Am will be recoginzed by the Hebrews. Actually the more accurate translation is 'I Will Be As I Will Be' which contains parts of the Divine Name- YAH or YAHU. It is an Exclaimation of Divine origins. Only such an Exclaimation could unit a slave nation to unity and action and overcome their fear. They knew YAH.
Many claim that Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14 in John 8:58. From a Hebrew language point of view this seems remote as it really says 'I Will Be As I Will Be'. I would seem odd for Jesus to say in John 'before Abraham was I Will Be.
Yahweh is here using an variation of his holy name in the first person. EHYEH ASHER EHYEH. Why did he say this? Yahweh said this in response to Moses question: "Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and tell them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you;' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' What should I tell them?" (Exodus 3:13)
I believe the phrase in Exodus 3:14 this should be more correctly rendered into English as:
God said to Moses, "EHYEH ASHER EHYEH" and he said, "You shall tell the children of Israel this: "EHYEH has sent me to you."
We should not assume, as many have, that the Israelites had never heard the name 'Yahweh' before. I presented evidence that the holy name was known as the name of the true God all through Genesis. The Israelites would certainly recognize the EHYEH as the first person form of YAHWEH, and know recognize this as the name of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Exodus 3:6,15)
http://reslight.net/genesisyahweh.html
As to the meaning of the name, it is an active verb, meaning in the first person, "I am", "I will be", etc. By expressing the name in a fuller sense as EHYEH ASHER EHYEH, Yahweh was stating that he will be who he is, in effect, he cannot deny who he is, and thus his promises are sure to be fulfilled. (2 Timothy 2:13; Hebrews 6:1 Yahweh is in the third person, "He is", "He will be", etc. Yahweh is generally used in context relative to God's covenants and promises, and the carrying out of his promises, as well as to his identification, while forms of EL (God) are used mostly concerning God's power, his mightiness, although both are also often used together.
Ehyeh and Yahweh are but two forms of the same name as seen by comparing Exodus 3:14 with Exodus 3:15. ""You shall tell the children of Israel this: 'Ehyeh has sent me to you.'" (Exodus 3:14) "You shall tell the children of Israel this, 'Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' " -- Exodus 3:15.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Yahweh is in the third person, "He is", "He will be", etc. Yahweh is generally used in context relative to God's covenants and promises, and the carrying out of his promises, as well as to his identification, while forms of EL (God) are used mostly concerning God's power, his mightiness, although both are also often used together.
