As in old time the saints were killed by their own co-nationales/hebrews , the same happen in the "last days" : the saints (brothers of Christ ) were spiritually killed - and some of them just litterally- by their brothers , the EDOM/ESAU seed. And that took place inside God's people .
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:38 am Post subject: Re: MARK OF THE BEAST
rus virgil wrote:
Only truth will free you wrote:
So you think being a JW is having the mark?
If so, how are they drunk with the blood of the saints?
Dear ,the apostol Paul said :
6. It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
7. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."
Romans 9.
So, not all J.W. are worshippers of Jehovah , but a few ones.
the same , not all J.W. are worshippers of the Beast , but most of them.
Those J.W. that fear Jehovah with all their hearth, and do not worship the FDS and so called God's organisation , do not have the mark
As in old time the saints were killed by their own co-nationales/hebrews , the same happen in the "last days" : the saints (brothers of Christ ) were spiritually killed - and some of them just litterally- by their brothers , the EDOM/ESAU seed. And that took place inside God's people .
I hope that answer may be understood .
r.v.
The mark goes one way or the other, and the JW are a small number of the worlds population, so how can this fit into the whole world being deceived?
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: MARK OF THE BEAST
rus virgil wrote:
For a long time God's people worshipped wood-idols .
What is a wood idol ?
8. "They are all senseless and foolish;
they are taught by worthless wooden idols. "
8. "They are both stupid and foolish;
the instruction of idols is but wood! " Jeremiah 10.
Any human interpretation (or according to human's will or science) of God's word is a wooden idol !
That is your interpretation: I see nothing in the Scripture you quoted to suggest that any scientific interpretation/human interpretation (that isn't "correct' according to someone) is a wood idol.
Quote:
But we are teached by Jesus to worship the Father "in spirit and truth" !
What does it means ?
23But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. 24. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4.
To worship God in spirit , it means to have the understanding of His word , in spirit
Quote:
Now , let us find what is the mark of beast according to God's will :
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Thus, it was proven that these people have left Jehovah – “the spring of the living water”. And here is what Jehovah said about these individuals: “Those who turn away from you will be written in the dust because they have forsaken the Lord, the spring of the living water” (Jeremiah 17: 13b)
There are loads of denominations who have forsaken the Lord.
Quote:
So, in spite of their statements and their claims of being part of the heaven, they have become dust. This is one of the horns, like a lamb's horn.
????
Horns in the Bible represent "power" or a kingdom of some sort. What's this horn doing?
Quote:
The other horn is exactly the part which was assigned authority and which is shown as being, hopefully, earthly. These horns are like lamb's horns, meaning that they come in the Name of God's Lamb. But next, we are shown that the beast having this appearance was speaking like a dragon. What does this mean? Let us think about it a little. How does a dragon speak? How did it speak in the Garden of Eden when it misled the original couple? Hasn't it spoken by altering God's words?
The WTS is hardly the only organization to alter God's words.
Quote:
All those who consider this picture as being what it claims to be are worshipers of “the beast and his image” (Revelation 14: 9) On the other hand, those who do not worship the beast and its image are “killed”, that is they are denied and banished from within this group of so-called witnesses and, thus “they don't buy and don't sell the rich spiritual asset” given by the <<slave>>! Only those who worship the beast and its image have the sign of the beast!
I agree with the interpretation that the Catholic church is the Beast spoken of in the Bible: they actually killed those who did not worship as the Catholic church prescribed. It was based in Rome, the "City of Seven Hills." It was the largest nation on earth at the time John had the Revelation (risen out of "many waters"). The Pope has a few titles which, in three languages, roman, greek, and hebrew, amount up to six hundred sixty six. It claims to have the direct power to forgive sins (blasphemy) which God must oblige. It claims the Pope is the "Vicar of Christ" and is the voice of God on earth ("setting himself up as God").
Just a few. =)
Quote:
Concerning the reckoning of the beast's number, 666 we have to understand that time has come for Jehovah to give the necessary wisdom and knowledge to His messenger in order to be able to reckon the number of the beast. The expression “for he is a number of man” helps us understand that it's something concerning the things that are guided by people within the frame of an organized system, but which does not correspond to God's requirements.
During this debate we have noticed that this beast is nothing else but the class of the opponents who settled in the temple as it was prophesied and thus, in relation with this organized system it is indicated to reckon the number of the beast.
So, let us see how we can find this number. At page 109 of the book “Jehovah's witnesses, proclaimers of God's Kingdom”, in the second paragraph the following appear: “Starting with 1 st January 1976 all the activities of the Watch Tower Society and of all the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses in the entire world have entered under the supervision of six administrative committees of the government corps. (And here we have the first six) Then, we read on: “In accordance with this measure, on 1 st February 1976 a similar modification took place in every branch of the society. (And this is the second six) Then, going down to the third step – the congregation we observe that there is a committee, which handles all the problems of the congregation. This committee is formed out of six members (and here is the third six) with the following functions and responsabilities: 1 – president; 2 – secretary; 3 – accountant; 4 – the supervisor of the minister school; 5 – the supervisor of the ministry service; 6 – the person who is in charge of the literature department. All these together represent the number 666.
This interpretation is flat-out wrong. I'm sorry to be demeaning, but this is like an error that an elementary school child would make: the number of the beast (and man) is not "6-6-6". It's the numerical value, 600 + 60 + 6. As in, one more than six hundred sixty five.
It's not "three sixes in a row", it's 6 hundreds then 3 twenties then 6. This interpretation is under the elementary mistaken assumption that the number in the Bible is a symbol in itself: it's not. It's a specific counting number about half of 1000, not 3 sixes. I like the KJV on stuff like this because it calls the number "six hundred threescore and six", to debunk any confusion (closest to origical language, which is
bible.cc wrote:
the 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (stigma as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60, and 6; 666 as a numeral
)
Such a mistake undermines my trust in this article: if the writer can make such a simple mistake as this, we can't really trust his larger points.
Quote:
Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit of Jehovah there will be more debates in the future concerning the beast or as the prophet Daniel says “the wild animal”. And all these happen because we approach very rapidly to the moment of the liberation of Jehovah's saints whom the beast defeated. With the true judgment that follows this beast will be “taken the domination and completely destroyed forever”.
“But the court will sit and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom and all rulers will worship and obey him.” (Daniel 7: 26b, 27)
So now “a breath of life from God” will enter inside these saints.(Revelation 11: 11) Of course, this thing will bring along not only amazement (2 Thessalonians 1: 10) but also a severe earthquake (Revelation 11: 13)
Then the following events show the fact that “the kingdom of the world” will become “the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and He will reign for ever and ever” (Revelation 11: 15)
My beloved brothers, these wonderful things discovered in these times by Jehovah through his Holy Spirit are the quintessence of “the song of Moses, the servant of God and the songs of the Lamb” that “those had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name” (Revelation 15: 2, 3) "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
END quotation.
As apostle Paul said , " but let God be true, and every man false; according as it is written, So that thou shouldest be justified in thy words, and shouldest overcome when thou art in judgment. "
r.v.
*nods*
Don't get me wrong: these are good things to keep in mind and to apply in our lives, but that does not mean we are allowed to forsake integrity in our study of prophecy simply to make a point.
( you may follow all posts about the Mark of the beast on pc forum ).
we read pc forum but our questions still remains the same.
and this is additional question for you. Are you sayin that if we are not baptized at WTS we are not Jesus followers????? If that's the conclusion you are coming to, there is no reason to listen to your conviction.
I am not WTS but I know that my family and I are truthful servants!!! We have been reading the Bible daily and obeying Jesus as much as we learn. If you dont think that is good enough you are no different from WTS organization, because that is tyrant reasoning and it is not of Jesus' spirit.. Jesus hates legalism.
( you may follow all posts about the Mark of the beast on pc forum ).
we read pc forum but our questions still remains the same.
and this is additional question for you. Are you sayin that if we are not baptized at WTS we are not Jesus followers????? If that's the conclusion you are coming to, there is no reason to listen to your conviction.
I am not WTS but I know that my family and I are truthful servants!!! We have been reading the Bible daily and obeying Jesus as much as we learn. If you dont think that is good enough you are no different from WTS organization, because that is tyrant reasoning and it is not of Jesus' spirit.. Jesus hates legalism.
love, hitomi
Quote:
we read pc forum but our questions still remains the same
I invited you to read there hoping you will see the the diferences between what I posted and what others posted.
I think you will observe my posts and those of ablebodiedman are convergent .
Quote:
and this is additional question for you. Are you sayin that if we are not baptized at WTS we are not Jesus followers????? If that's the conclusion you are coming to, there is no reason to listen to your conviction.
I don't understand where your conclusion come from.
I don't say that and Bible does not say that !
Quote:
I am not WTS but I know that my family and I are truthful servants!!! We have been reading the Bible daily and obeying Jesus as much as we learn. If you dont think that is good enough you are no different from WTS organization, because that is tyrant reasoning and it is not of Jesus' spirit..
I am very glad you are truthful servants ! Nobody have the right to take this yours right (of serving Jehovah through His Christ ) !
Besides what Jesus preach to us , take care also to what apostles and Holy Spirit teach us :
28. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
29. You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
Acts 15.
Quote:
.. Jesus hates legalism.
It is your declaration !
I can't proove it !
I can say only what Jesus told us :
"Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Matt.22:21.
Dear , all Rev. 13 is a prophecy (of God ).
It is written "in letter" , but it has to be understood "in spirit".
Why ? Because :
24. "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
...said Jesus.
Also ap.Paul confirms :"....for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." 2Corint. 3:6.
We can see , many of Bible prophecies may be likened to events that happened in human old-history , or even in the present history. Exemples : the 7 world powers , the history of papacy , the league+ UN , the returning of Israel nation to their home-land , etc.
But the understanding to what God referres is only one , and it is called "spiritually" because is the only understanding and interpretation according to God's will . That understanding should all christians to look for.
To properly understand a prophecy , the christian searcher/seeker has to see in what time has to be fulfilled , regarding to what people or nation , what action is described in that prophecy, and how does it fit with Jesus teaching or Jesus words , because it is written :
17. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1.
Also:
"...... For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Rev.19:10.
Once the frame/background of prophecies is established and fully supported by Bible , one may continue with the little things/jots .
Also the cross-referrences are good to take in consideration .
So , to understand the beast of rev.13 is a long way to do in studiing Jesus teaching and apostles' , and other prophecy of old testament.
As in old time the saints were killed by their own co-nationales/hebrews , the same happen in the "last days" : the saints (brothers of Christ ) were spiritually killed - and some of them just litterally- by their brothers , the EDOM/ESAU seed. And that took place inside God's people .
Which one are you talking about?
Catholics and Protestants killing JWs? or what?
Joyful ,
I see you did not understand.
Let us take in consideration :
7. " But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
So , when God did a prophecie , He did (spoke) it considering that!
He speaks in His prophecies about His people . But He doesn't say all members of His people are good and faithful ones.
See that :
26. "Among my people are wicked men
who lie in wait like men who snare birds
and like those who set traps to catch men." Jeremiah 5.
Regarding the time of the end , Jesus told us :
The Parable of the Net
47. "Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48. When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49. This is how it will be at the end of the age.The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous
50. and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
51. "Have you understood all these things?" Jesus asked.
"Yes," they replied.
Matt.13.
So , dear Joyful , the actions Jehovah is speaking in His prophecies are to happen not in "world" , but in His people , in a way will act the bad hearthed and other way the good hearthed.
The Kingdom will be given to the good ones after they will be separated from the evil ones , and after they will be cleaned (sanctified ).
Let us see a prophecy:
8. In the whole land," declares the LORD,
"two-thirds will be struck down and perish;
yet one-third will be left in it.
9. This third I will bring into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold. They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, 'They are my people,'
and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.' "
Zechariah 13.
Starting in 1872 the fishing with the Net has begun.
And in autumn of 2005 started the judgement at the House of God .
Now is the time of separating of what is right from what is wicked .
So , dear Joyful , the actions Jehovah is speaking in His prophecies are to happen not in "world" , but in His people , in a way will act the bad hearthed and other way the good hearthed.
So what you are saying is that only WTS is God's people. You are no different than WTS sinse that's what you believe.
I am not WTS member but I know my family and I are one of God's people. give me a break.
So , dear Joyful , the actions Jehovah is speaking in His prophecies are to happen not in "world" , but in His people , in a way will act the bad hearthed and other way the good hearthed.
So what you are saying is that only WTS is God's people. You are no different than WTS sinse that's what you believe.
I am not WTS member but I know my family and I are one of God's people. give me a break.
love, hitomi
Dear Hitomi, please ,
all we have to grow up in knowledge !
your confusion come from a lack of Bible knowledges.
Some may think , if God has a people , only that /His people will be saved , and all others not !
I tell you right , I never read something like that in Bible !
let us read from God's word :
Genesis 12 :
2. "I will make you into a great nation
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3. I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you."
again Genesis 18 :
18. Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.
again Genesis 22 :
18. and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."
and again Exodus 19 :
5. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine,
6. you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites."
Do you see dear Joyful what God said? He did not change his promises and purposes.
In His plan for human family salvation , He has a clear purpose : to choose a people who will serve as priests for all the rest of mankind !
But before to give the kingdom to that people of priests (saints ) , He first has to asure that his people (of priests ) is tested properly (as His Son was tested to the limit ) as to be given the guarantee that these ones are trustworthy before God and before all rest of mankind !
What do you think may happen if exactly the priests in duty will leave their God and will teach other people wrong ?? May a such kingdom be called " of God " ??
Today we live in a period when the testing for priest people of God close to end , anyway , the result is not seen yet with litteraly eyes .
Because many (a great number ) of those who were called before to be priests became unfaithful to God , there is oportunity today to enter in that priest arrangement of God ! But who enter there , is not my problem , it is a problem directly between God who calls, and the called person .
Not all christians are priests , but to survive the end of this world and to enter in God's kingdom anyone on that planet must receive Jesus the Christ , and so , to became "christian ".
Dear Hitomy , again I have to tell you : you are doing confusion between God's people and WT organisation .
Where God says "My people " He means something. He NEVER said in Bible that He is having on earth an "organisation " , only individuals , or a people .
But WT org was meant to be the legal (according Caesar's law ) posibility of work for printing and distributing the printed explanations of Bible . It was A TOOL in the hands of faithful people of Jehovah. But it happens as Jesus teached us in parabole of wheat and tares , immediatly were sowed in "God's land " tares or weeds. see Hebrews 12:16.
The tares are wordly men , egoist people who were interested in taking control over God's people ( Edomites , thinking they will take control over the kingdom ) , and they took the control over WT org. and used it as an opression tool agaist Jacob class . That is the recent history of God's people , after 1872 (year ).
The saints are only a few there (in so called God's org ) and they have no authority , because the authority in org is now inthe hands of weeds/tares. The org. is not the Babylon itself , but is the "daughter of babylon" . See Isaiah 47 entire. So God commands to His saints to come out or to escape from the daughter of Babylon/ WT org , see the command :
6. "Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north," declares the LORD, "for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven," declares the LORD.
7. "Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!"
Zechariah 2.
that command will be obeyed and executed only by those who really LOVE AND OBEY their God !!
In psalms it is shown that His saints are opressed , but they will be made free , and then the nations will gather to worship God :
19. "The LORD looked down from his sanctuary on high,
from heaven he viewed the earth,
20. to hear the groans of the prisoners
and release those condemned to death."
21 So the name of the LORD will be declared in Zion
and his praise in Jerusalem
22 when the peoples and the kingdoms
assemble to worship the LORD.
Psalm 102.
Well dear soul , here it is God's word, I can't add or take from it .
You (surely ) may be Christian , even as a spiritual Israelite(priest class) or as other nation (any people or nation ) on earth who came to Sion for worship Jehovah ! See Isaiah 2:2-4, Micah 4:1-5 , Zechariah 8:20-23, Luke 17:33-37.
I do not decide your citizenship (as also nor mine ), it is Jehovah , the Father who do it .
SO ,do watch about your relationship with God, trough his Son , Jesus Christ .
So , let be God right !
10. Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac.
11. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand:
12. not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger."
13. Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
14. What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!
15. For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
16. It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
ROMANS 9.
(sorry , more clear than that , I don't know... I hope you will understand. )
What are you doing with your convictions? I dont think we can ever know the whole truth who is the Beast or Babylon the Great or whatever until we meet Jesus. But I can guess roughly: I believe America is one of the biggest evil and the rest of organized churches and religions are part of all evil things that the book of Revelation is talking about. Thats good enough for me to know and I will keep on spreading Jesus untill the end with faithfulness.
What are you doing with your convictions? I dont think we can ever know the whole truth who is the Beast or Babylon the Great or whatever until we meet Jesus. But I can guess roughly: I believe America is one of the biggest evil and the rest of organized churches and religions are part of all evil things that the book of Revelation is talking about. Thats good enough for me to know and I will keep on spreading Jesus untill the end with faithfulness.
love, hitomi
Hi , Hitomi,
you said :
Quote:
But I can guess roughly: I believe America is one of the biggest evil and the rest of organized churches and religions are part of all evil things that the book of Revelation is talking about. Thats good enough for me to know
Please look carefuly to inspired word spoken by apostle John :
9. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.
2 John 1.
So , it is good enough for you to ... continue in the teaching of Christ , and so you have both the Father and the Son !
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Look Rus,
I have been reading the Bible and striving to obey everything what Jesus and His disciples are teaching in the NT. I believe Holy Spirit is helping me to be an effective servant as Jesus' ambassador. It is much better to follow my instinct than man. There are too many phoney prophets. Besides it is not going to change my servanthood just because my guessing of prophesy is not accurate.
I did not join any evil organization; it is because I have been trying my best to follow Jesus. You are forgetting about this very important fruit of my faith, rus!!!!!!!
How long did it take for you to disattach from your organization???? this fact should make you humble to doubt who has been serious believer or not!!!
Rus, you sure make mountains out of molehills. ;P Those posts are quite long. I make a comment as simple as "Your guy interpreted 666 wrong" and you ignore it.
Rus, truth is very important, but that doesn't mean we need to have all knowledge to serve God: we merely must seek out knowledge to the best of our ability and act on what we HAVE to honor the Lord as best we can. It does not take a final understanding of who is the "real beast" to do this. Frankly, understanding "the right" end times interpretation or who is the "real organization who has dishonored God" (like there is only one) isn't that important as far as our spirituality is concerned. If you've got a good interpretation, good! Share it! Discuss it! Seek out the truth! That's what we're supposed to do at all times with all things. And there are some fundamental beliefs which should raise up flags when people say they serve Jesus and DON'T believe these certain things...
But don't be hanging people's salvation on the color of the tapestries in heaven's palaces. If you do that, and you believe something not widely believed, then you won't bother to spend time edifying those who don't believe exactly the way you do, because they couldn't possibly be following Christ in your eyes.
It seems very obvoious to me that whoever is claiming to be Christian but is not serving God with all their might is going to receive the mark of the beast.
There is so much phony christianity that I believe non-believers have more chance getting mercy of God than organized churches.
Organized churches are plainly being a stumbling block for non-believers and people who are seeking the truth.
I believe most if not all JWs are worshipping FDS because if not they will be disfellowshipped.
hitomi
Hi ,
HITOMI,
you are right
YHWH have prophecised that a lot of time before Deut.32 :
15. Jeshurun [d] grew fat and kicked;
filled with food, he became heavy and sleek.
He abandoned the God who made him
and rejected the Rock his Savior.
16 .They made him jealous with their foreign gods
and angered him with their detestable idols.
17. They sacrificed to demons, which are not God—
gods they had not known,
gods that recently appeared,
gods your fathers did not fear.
18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you;
you forgot the God who gave you birth.
Here is shown, in the middle of His people had appeared "gods"
such "gods" are or may be
-- so called "god's (earthly) organisation"
-- the WTS
-- the "slave" firstly only one person-pastor Russell / and then "the FDS" as a class
-- in eastern europe , in absence of the FDS was their "WT magasines/tracts" viewed as "the FDS voice"
-- again in eastern (ex communist) europe there are "the old brothers"...
-- another discerned "idol" is even a certain explanation of a Biblical subject , for instance : at the end of his life, pastor Russel said :
he that does not agree with "The Divine plan of ages" is not "in truth"!
So , through a such declaration he/Rusell put "his explanation" on an equal position with an idol
the same things happens latter with other WT teachings-- these teachings are "wooden idols"
All this idols are worshipped by "God's people" and they made "God's country " of true worship a "waste land" or a "Babylon" = confusion .
that is the "state of fact"or situation from where every single christian need to flee out "to the mountains" as Jesus saidin Matt.24:16./ Rev 18:4.
I would ask you to carefully consider this scripture:
Revelation 19:19-20
19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage the war with the one seated on the horse and with his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image.
It is the False Prophet who deceives people into getting "the mark".
The False Prophet comes in Jesus Christs name.
Therefore a person who is not a Christian cannot get this mark!
Think carefully about this.
An atheist, agnostic, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh will not listen to or believe a true Christian Prophet let alone a false one.
Rus, you sure make mountains out of molehills. ;P Those posts are quite long. I make a comment as simple as "Your guy interpreted 666 wrong" and you ignore it.
Rus, truth is very important, but that doesn't mean we need to have all knowledge to serve God: we merely must seek out knowledge to the best of our ability and act on what we HAVE to honor the Lord as best we can. It does not take a final understanding of who is the "real beast" to do this. Frankly, understanding "the right" end times interpretation or who is the "real organization who has dishonored God" (like there is only one) isn't that important as far as our spirituality is concerned. If you've got a good interpretation, good! Share it! Discuss it! Seek out the truth! That's what we're supposed to do at all times with all things. And there are some fundamental beliefs which should raise up flags when people say they serve Jesus and DON'T believe these certain things...
But don't be hanging people's salvation on the color of the tapestries in heaven's palaces. If you do that, and you believe something not widely believed, then you won't bother to spend time edifying those who don't believe exactly the way you do, because they couldn't possibly be following Christ in your eyes.
Take care.
Then who are you battling against.
If you do not understand these things then you really will not know who your enemy really is!
It is essential to know.
The faithfull will know, they will not have to guess.
Revelation 17:12-14
12 “And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].”
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: MARK OF THE BEAST
butxifxnot wrote:
rus virgil wrote:
Concerning the reckoning of the beast's number, 666 we have to understand that time has come for Jehovah to give the necessary wisdom and knowledge to His messenger in order to be able to reckon the number of the beast. The expression “for he is a number of man” helps us understand that it's something concerning the things that are guided by people within the frame of an organized system, but which does not correspond to God's requirements.
During this debate we have noticed that this beast is nothing else but the class of the opponents who settled in the temple as it was prophesied and thus, in relation with this organized system it is indicated to reckon the number of the beast.
So, let us see how we can find this number. At page 109 of the book “Jehovah's witnesses, proclaimers of God's Kingdom”, in the second paragraph the following appear: “Starting with 1 st January 1976 all the activities of the Watch Tower Society and of all the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses in the entire world have entered under the supervision of six administrative committees of the government corps. (And here we have the first six) Then, we read on: “In accordance with this measure, on 1 st February 1976 a similar modification took place in every branch of the society. (And this is the second six) Then, going down to the third step – the congregation we observe that there is a committee, which handles all the problems of the congregation. This committee is formed out of six members (and here is the third six) with the following functions and responsabilities: 1 – president; 2 – secretary; 3 – accountant; 4 – the supervisor of the minister school; 5 – the supervisor of the ministry service; 6 – the person who is in charge of the literature department. All these together represent the number 666.
This interpretation is flat-out wrong. I'm sorry to be demeaning, but this is like an error that an elementary school child would make: the number of the beast (and man) is not "6-6-6". It's the numerical value, 600 + 60 + 6. As in, one more than six hundred sixty five.
It's not "three sixes in a row", it's 6 hundreds then 3 twenties then 6. This interpretation is under the elementary mistaken assumption that the number in the Bible is a symbol in itself: it's not. It's a specific counting number about half of 1000, not 3 sixes.
This interpretation is absolutely correct.
The name of the wild beast is; "Gods Spirit Directed Orgaization"
It is "organized" in groups of sixes.
Just like the ancient Israelites were organized in groups of specific numbers:
Exodus 18:20-21
But you yourself should select out of all the people capable men, fearing God, trustworthy men, hating unjust profit; and you must set these over them as chiefs over thousands, chiefs over hundreds, chiefs over fifties and chiefs over tens.
Therefore the number is not a static 6.
The worldwide commitee of 6 are chiefs over millions.
The branch committees of 6 are chiefs over thousands.
The kingdom hall committee of 6 are chiefs over hundreds.
Usind 600 60 and 6 to represent the organization is perfectly scriptural in regard to an organization of men.
A mans number.
Consider this quote also found on page 109 of the same JW Publication:
jv chap. 9 p. 109 Jehovah’s Word Keeps Moving Speedily (1976-1992)
After the committees had been operating for some months, the Governing Body observed: “It has proved beneficial to have a number of brothers taking counsel together to consider the interests of the Kingdom work.
It is simple abe, against Satan. You are making simple Christianity so complicated with your prophesy interpretation; this is what Satan wants His followers to do. And you are taking his bait. _________________ YHWH is my God and Jesus is my Lord
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