You are slandering russell wihout any proof. watch out rus.
I am not giving up anything. Stop talking so arrogatly rus.
Speaking the truth I am arrogantly ?
Galatians 4:
16. So then am I become your enemy, by telling you the truth?
Surely the Song of Moses has to do with Russel, because God used him as His prophet to brought Israel out of Egipt (the world) :
Hosea 12:
13 And by a prophet Jehovah brought Israel up out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved.
From Russell time on , that group of christians were God's people , the Israel of God , to whom is adressed the words of the "Song of Moses":
Deuteronomy 31
16. And Jehovah said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and play the harlot after the strange gods of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17. Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall come upon them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?
18. And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evil which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
19. Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach thou it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20. For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, flowing with milk and honey, and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxed fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and despise me, and break my covenant.
21. And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22. So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
SO , that Song is "a witness" for YHWH against the sons of Israel / against the followers of Russell .
When YHWH said through Isaiah like this:
Isaiah 8
20. To the law and to the testimony! if they speak not according to this word, surely there is no morning for them.
what makes you think you have the truth and everyone else who don't interprete the same way as you do is false?
This is nothing but arrogance. Stop twisting what I say.
Well,
I want not make you tired,
meantime be watchfull to see how YHWH is fulfilling Hos Own Word :
Jeremiah 1:
11. Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Jeremiah, what do you see? And I said, I see a branch or shoot of an almond tree [the emblem of alertness and activity, blossoming in late winter].
12. Then said the Lord to me, You have seen well, for I am alert and active, watching over My word to perform it.
You both have been slandering Russell without solid proof. I will not agree with any of you regarding russell's credibility. You have to live with it. I will not take part in slandering any of His faithful ones slandering.
joyful , you ar are hypocrit! YOu can badmouth the jws for beliving the GB is the Faithful and Discreet Slave, which they are not, and thats ok. but when some one does the same to Russel, who is not you cant tolerate it. Neither are and never will be. You can remove me from this board.
joyful , you ar are hypocrit! YOu can badmouth the jws for beliving the GB is the Faithful and Discreet Slave, which they are not, and thats ok. but when some one does the same to Russel, who is not you cant tolerate it. Neither are and never will be. You can remove me from this board.
What you are doing is personal attack. I am criticizing the JWs as a whole. You dont seem to know the difference. You accuse Russell of things in his private life with you have no solid proof; you conveniently believe only what his enemies have to say about him.
Why do you hate him so much? Your hostility is showing vividly against him.
you base all your beliefs on Russel. I dont hate him, hes dead! He is not our savior. never was , never will be. Do you believe all you read about Rutheford? Jesus is our Savior, not the GB or Russel. So what if he wrote books, so does ew, don burney and many others. You need to quit looking to men. B.S. are no differant than JWs, just a differant form of brainwashing. Thought you had more sense than that.
you base all your beliefs on Russel. I dont hate him, hes dead! He is not our savior. never was , never will be. Do you believe all you read about Rutheford? Jesus is our Savior, not the GB or Russel. So what if he wrote books, so does ew, don burney and many others. You need to quit looking to men. B.S. are no differant than JWs, just a differant form of brainwashing. Thought you had more sense than that.
I have sense to trust when I see faithful ones. I don't follow everything that anyone teach. No one is perfect. I don't slander any of faithful ones. I don't slander ew, or many other faithful ones. Jesus says to carry each other's burdens. Where is your compassion for other faithful servants of Jesus. There aren't many faithful ones. Cherish them, friend.
You seem to hate BS. I don't hate them at all even though many of them are blindly following how they are interpreting that Russell teaches. I just quite studying with BS, remember?
You have been mysterious sinse you joined this forum. Are you JW? You seem to have many things to hide. Are you ashamed of what you are? You know just about everything about me since I have been exposing in this forum even about my private life. I don't know anything about you, so I trust Russell much more than I trust what you say.
I have told you before that I am not a JW. I dont hate Russel or any that preach. I am just voicing my opinion as you do over and over again. you are too judgemental. I DO NOT follow or believe in any man ,only Jesus and His Father. Russel made many many false predictions the same as the JWs do , same as all men do. You dont need his books to know the Bible or to study it. That is just another religion.
I have told you before that I am not a JW. I dont hate Russel or any that preach. I am just voicing my opinion as you do over and over again. you are too judgemental. I DO NOT follow or believe in any man ,only Jesus and His Father. Russel made many many false predictions the same as the JWs do , same as all men do. You dont need his books to know the Bible or to study it. That is just another religion.
I am judgmental? You just come in here and slander Russell and you tell me I am judgmental??? give me a break.
All you have been doing is nothing but slandering Russell and about me because I don't agree with your opinion. what is your problem???
If that's all you're interested in this forum you are not welcome here. I don't see you doing anything here besides slandering Russell.
Do you honestly believe Russel is enlightening you? Your hatred of the JWs is so bad you are jumping from the fying pan right into the fire.
I am so shocked that someone who claims to love Jesus so much has turned to man, especially a dead one.
look at Russels tombstone, the masonic sign is right there. RR is Mason. The truth is not in them or any religion. I truely feel sorry for you
There is no Masonic "sign" on Russell's tombstone.
The only "evidence" I have ever seen that Russell was a Mason is in the imaginative assumptions, and assumptions placed upon those assumptions, that some have presented as such evidence. In reality, no real evidence has ever been presented, because there is none, since he was indeed not a Mason.
Russell was never a member of the Freemasons or the Knights Templar organizations. He did not believe in such organizations. He certainly was not a 33rd degree member of an organization that he did not even believe in. This whole idea that Russell was a member of the Freemasons and the Knights Templar is the result of somebody’s imagination gone totally out of control.
Charles Taze Russell was not buried in a pyramid, “illuminati” or otherwise. Rutherford, a few years after Russell died, had a pyramid monument built in the center of the WTS plot of the Rosemont Cemetery. This monument was not Russell’s grave nor his tombstone; nor was it built to as an “illuminati” monument. Rutherford claimed that Russell had wished for such a monument to built, however, being very familiar with Russell’s writings and his humility, I highly doubt that Russell actually agreed to such a flamboyant construction. The only “illuminati” that Russell believed in was the illumination from God through His holy spirit by means of the Bible.
Of course, I do not view Russell as my Messiah, nor as the one anointed by Yahweh. Nor do I follow, or believe in, anything Russell said simply because he said it, but I do follow Russell in any way that his words might lead me to a closer understanding of Jesus and the God and Father of Jesus. This, however, I might also do with many other authors, and not just with the works of Charles Taze Russell. I do not accept everything Russell wrote, nor do I accept everything that John Gill, William Smith or Matthew Henry wrote, and yet I may use any of their writings to any extent that what they have written would lead to a clearer understanding of the Bible.
Actually, Russell seemed to not understand many things about the Freemasons, and seemed to confuse the “Knights Templar” with the Freemasons in general, as I have had several freemasons point out to me. The difference between “Freemasons” and the Knights Templar is that anyone of any religion can join the Freemasons. However, to join the “Knights Templar” one has to profess Christianity and also be a member of the Freemasons.
Brother Russell comments on the Free Masons
Quote:
Watch Tower June 15, 1895
R1827 : page 143
In our judgment the majority of “secret societies” are merely beneficiary and have no secret schemes antagonistic to the general public welfare, the secret rites and ceremonies being merely “boys’ play,” occupying the time and attention of persons who have no greater aims than those which pertain to the present life. We note, however, that several Roman Catholic Societies seem to have schemes connected with the use of fire-arms, and are therefore to be classed as malevolent rather than benevolent.
We note also that the Order of Free Masons, if judged by its past history, has some secret object or scheme, more than fraternity and financial aid in time of sickness or death. And, so far as we can judge, there is a certain amount of profane worship or mummery connected with the rites of this order and some others, which the members do not comprehend, but which, in many cases, serves to satisfy the cravings of the natural mind for worship, and thus hinders it from seeking the worship of God in spirit and in truth—through Christ, the only appointed Mediator and Grand Master.
In proportion as such societies consume valuable time in foolish, senseless rites and ceremonies, and in substituting the worship of their officers, and the use of words and symbols which have no meaning to them, for the worship of God, in his appointed way — through Christ, and according to knowledge and the spirit of a sound mind — in that proportion these societies are grievous evils, regardless of the financial gains or losses connected with membership in them.
The New Creation, pages 580, 581
:
Quote:
This brings before us the whole question of orders, societies, etc., and what privileges the New Creation has in connection with such organizations. Is it right for them to be members of these societies? We answer that while Church associations are purely religious, and labor and beneficial organizations in general are purely secular, there are still other orders which combine the religious and the secular features. As we understand the matter, for instance, the Free Masons, Odd Fellows, Knights of Pythias, etc., perform certain rites and ceremonies of a religious kind. Let it be understood that we are not waging any warfare upon those who hold membership in these various orders, even as we are not waging warfare against the various sectarian religious systems. We place upon one level all of those which have any religious ceremonies, teachings, etc., and consider them all as parts of Babylon, some quarters or wards of which are cleaner, and others less clean, but all, nevertheless, full of confusion, error—contrary to the divine intention, as displayed in the organization of the primitive Church and the instructions, by word and example, given to it by the inspired Founder, and his twelve apostles.
We admonish the New Creation to have nothing whatever to do with any of these semi-religious societies, clubs, orders, churches; but to “Come out from amongst them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing.” (2 Cor. 6:17) Their things, their worship, their teachings, their doctrines, are unclean to us, though they may not be unclean to themselves. The eyes of our understanding have been opened, and now to us all things appear in a new light, so that things which we once loved now we hate, and things which we once hated now we love.
What Pastor Russell Said
Question 317:2 (1910)
Quote:
I am not judging at all, I am merely saying, so far as I can tell. But my understanding is, that all of these are bundles, and each bundle is getting tighter. Some of you know a great deal more about Freemasonry than I do, and I am not here to say anything against it, because I do not know anything to say, and I do not know as I would say it if I did know it. The Lord did not send me to preach against Masonry or Odd Fellowship, nor against Presbyterianism or Methodism. Our opportunity is to tell the truth, to preach the true gospel of Christ, and the Lord says that this message is to have its effects on the different hearts. Now, if you find yourself in any kind of a bundle, you know that is not the program so far as the wheat is concerned. The wheat is to he gathered into the garner; it is not to be put into bundles in the present life. The wheat is to be free. If you find yourself in any kind of a bundle, better get out of the bundle. Trust in the Lord, and be in harmony with Him, and this will take you out of all kinds of bundles and human organizations, I believe.
I should, perhaps, say a cautionary word here to the effect that I would understand this would mean, for instance, that if I were a carpenter I would prefer to be at liberty, but if it were demanded of me that I should join a union before I could have work, and that I must pay so much of my money into that union’s coffers, I should join. I should understand that I was making so much of a contribution to the general weal of the carpenters, and I would have no hesitation in the matter, because there is nothing of a religious kind there. There is nothing that would fetter my heart or mind. But if that organization should do anything I could not approve, I would feel perfectly free to withdraw at any time. So I would make that limitation. But, so far as wheat and tares are concerned, I think there are plenty of bundles all around you, and I notice, too, that these different worldly organizations, if we may so call them in contradistinction to church organizations, are also taking the same methods the church people are taking. It used to be very easy to withdraw from one of the churches and you could say, “I will thank you for a letter,” and then they would take the letter and never deposit it, but burn it up, if they desired. And so with the Masons; they had a method by which anyone desiring to leave the order could ask for a demit and he would get that without any particular question. I have been informed that now this is changed somewhat. If you are a Presbyterian, and you wish a letter, they say, “To which church do you wish the letter addressed?” You say, “Oh, just make it out anyway.” “Oh we do not do that now; we will give you a letter to a certain, particular church and it is to he deposited there—good when deposited there.” And so I am informed that our Freemason friends are doing the same thing; they do not give demits now. If you wish to be transferred to another lodge they will transfer you, but they do not give demits now in the same way they formerly did.
A Brother: Brother Russell, I am a Mason and, unfortunately, hold a high position in the order, and I would like to make a little correction on that. A Mason is perfectly free to leave when he feels so disposed. No restraint whatever is placed upon him.
Brother Russell: I told you in the beginning that I did not know about it myself; I was only relating what a brother told me.
Another Brother: I was a Mason in a different jurisdiction from that of the brother. It may he all right in his particular jurisdiction, but it is not the same in other jurisdictions, as I know.
Brother Russell: You will notice that we never have anything to say against any of these. We have not said an unkind word about Freemasonry, and you never read anything unkind that we have ever said about it, and I do not wish to say anything unkind about Presbyterianism, or Methodism. I think that many of the dear friends in these denominations are good people, and I appreciate their characters. What I talk about sometimes is Presbyterian doctrine, and they talk about it, too. And I have read things they have said about Presbyterian doctrines far harder than anything I have ever said. I sometimes quote in the Watch Tower some things Presbyterians say about their own doctrine, and I occasionally quote in the Watch Tower something the Methodists say about their doctrine, because they say it stronger than I should wish to say it.
One quote often misused to allegedly prove that Russell was a member of the Free Masons Society, has to be taken out of context. The quote is from his sermon entitled “The Temple of God”, delivered in California in 1913. It is online at:
http://ctr.reslight.net/cr359.html
Yes, Russell said in that sermon: “I am a free and accepted Mason.” Was he saying that he was a member of the Free Masons Society? Absolutely not! The context shows that he was referring to “Bible masonry”, not the human organization that goes by the name of ’Free Masons". He was using using Free Masonry terminology to illustrate the Biblical building being constructed by God. — See: Luke 6:47,48; Romans 14:19; 1 Corinthians 3:9,10,12; 14:12,26; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 4:7-16; 1 Thessalonians 5:11; Revelation 3:12.
Indeed, in that same sermon, Russell, in referring to the human organization by the name of Freemason, said, “I have never been a Mason.” I have no reason to believe, and certainly no one has given me any reason to believe, that Russell was lying when he stated this.
In effect, what those who claim otherwise present is a lot of quotes that can be twisted, illustrations (cross and crown symbol, winged sun disc, etc.) from which they imagine, assume, and attribute as being proof that Russell was a Freemaon, Occultist, etc.
The accusations that Russell was a member of the Freemasons, an occultist, etc., however, are based mostly on the surmissings and distortions of one Fritz Springmeier (an ex-JW, who was never at all associated with the WTS as it was in the days of Russell), who in, turn, seems to have gotten his inspiration from an earlier writer by the name of Edith Starr Miller. Neither of these writers knew Russell personally, and neither seem to know or understand much of Russell’s teachings. Indeed, from reading Springmeier’s writings (Wise and Serpents, Bloodlines of the Illuminati, etc.), anyone who is familiar with Russell’s writings would readily recognize that Springmeier is only familiar enough with Russell’s writings so as to find quotes and/or references that he could bend or twist to make it appear to support his assertions. Springmeier definitely does not understand what Russell actually taught, and doesn’t seem to be really concerned whether he actually represented Russell correctly, but is definitely obssessed with misrepresenting Russell as much as possible in his efforts to make Russell appear to have been what Springmeier wishes to present him as.
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: The Spread of Misrepresentations Concerning Russell
Donna wrote:
Im sure as you study and go along you will get the message. Russel was a womanizer , child molesster, adulter. He was in it for the money. A perfect life, lol. Only Jesus was perfect. search the net , you will see how evil Russel was. Until you see the light you are being quided by satan.
Rev. is only given by Jehovah , not Russel, who is dead in the ground.
Mrs. Russell reported related some years later that her testimony concerning the her husband's personal life was due to the urging of her lawyer. At any rate, in her testimony, she flatly stated that she was not accusing her husband of adultery.
Russell was certainly not "in it" for the money, since he depleted his entire fortune in financing the work. He died virtually penniless.
I do not know of anyone who claims that Russell was perfect, except that some who seem to hate him and spread all kinds of misinformation might claim that there those who claim he was perfect. Search the net, and you can find many sites full of evil hatred for Russell, with distortions and misrepresentations of facts, evil surmissings producing assumptions upon assumptions, deceptions, and outright lies being spread about Russell, and many of these sites are doing these works imitating the method of Satan "in the name of Jesus"!
Satan is surely angry that Russell brought forth from the scriptures many truths, while exposing the doctrines of men that conflicted with those truths. The method of deception being spread on the sites mentioned is certainly compliant with the methods of deception that Satan uses.
Charles Taze Russell never claimed any direct revelation from God. His opponents, as well as some others who claimed to be his followers, have made this claim for him, but he denied such from the very beginning and continued in such denial until the day he died. He certainly never claimed to be a prophet, as did Joseph Smith.
Charles Taze Russell (although he stated his views firmly as his beliefs) was never dogmatic about his beliefs on chronology and time prophecy, nor did he demand of the Bible Students associated with him or anyone else accept his beliefs. His statements were:
"Our own views are not prophecy, but interpretations of the holy prophets of old." (Watch Tower, October 1890, page 8)
"Neither must you lean upon the DAWN and the TOWER as infallible teachers. If it was proper for the early Christians to prove what they received from the apostles, who were and who claimed to be inspired, how much more important it is that you fully satisfy yourself that these teachings keep closely within their outline instructions and those of our Lord; -- since their author claims no inspiration, but merely the guidance of the Lord, as one used of him in feeding his flock." ("The Watch Tower", June, 1893)
"We are not prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises, the Scriptural basis for which is already in the hands of our readers in the six volumes of SCRIPTURE STUDIES." (Watch Tower, January 1, 1908, page 5).
"I am not a prophet." (What Pastor Russell Said, Q272:1, 1910)
"Some people try to make out that I claim I am infallible, and know everything. You are all witnesses that that is not true." (What Pastor Russell Said, Q14:1, 1911)
"We try to be careful about every word that goes into the Watch Tower, but we do not claim to be infallible; we are doing the best we can." (What Pastor Russell Said, Q56:1, 1910)
"We have never set forth anything to indicate that our view in the matter was infallible. I do not know positively that the times of the Gentiles will end in October, 1914, or at any other particular time. We think there is strong reason for believing that the Gentile Times will end in October, 1914. We give it as our opinion, and set before you the Scriptural reason. Some may believe and some not. This is our thought and if it is correct, about that time, or shortly thereafter, a great time of trouble will come upon the world." (What Pastor Russell Said, Q313:2, 1914)
====
Many more quotes could be provided.
What one will not find anywhere in Russell's writings is that he claimed that his writings were a direct revelation from God, or that his predictions were directly from God.
I will say that, after Russell died, that Rutherford made all kinds of claims for Russell that Russell himself never claimed, including the claim that Russell was a prophet.
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: Looking to man or God
Donna wrote:
He was suppose to be a servant of JEHOVAH. you can read about him on the net. he was unfaithful to his wife, got divorced. was carrying on with a very young girl who was a servant in his home. I look only to Jehovah and Jesus, not man.
Mrs. Russell, at the instigation of her lawyer, did present many heresay accusations, but when she was asked if she was accusing her husband of adultery, she said "no". Her testimony concerning the alleged conduct was ordered to be stricken from the records.
The last statement, I might wonder concerning. How is one to look only to Jehovah and Jesus, and not man? Is one not look to any man to translate the scriptures into your language? Is one not looking to any many to verify the translation? Is one not to look to any man if you desire to learn the original languages of the Bible? Would such a person have no need of a church, a pastor, etc.? No human are needed to introduce others to Jesus, his God and the Bible? One has to be careful in stating such statements, for the implications as stated, can be far-reaching. However, I understand what is meant by this, and I myself do agree that we should not look to man, apart from the Bible, to our leader or as an alleged "sole channel" of communication from God.
Nevertheless, thousands read the Bible and yet I would say most, even if they profess to have God’s spirit, never come to understand the truth of the Bible. Many seem to be more interested in only using the Bible to support their imaginations which they place over the Bible. Satan was and is very busy in making sure the apostasy keeps as many as possible blinded to the truth. Brother Russell has shown things to me in the Bible that I would never have noticed on my own.
On the other hand, we have the often unrealized influence of others, such as the trinitarians, who wish for people see their imaginations in the scripture, which imaginations are one of Satan’s tools to keep people blinded. I read the scriptures long before I read anything written by Russell, but, due to the blinding influence of man’s tradition, I was blinded to what the scriptures were actually saying. Nevertheless, when I was teenager, I remember reading certain scriptures concerning the blessing of the heathen, and wondered how those scriptures could be fulfilled. The scriptures seemed to be saying something totally different from what I had been taught. It wasn’t until I read some of publications of “The Dawn Bible Students Association” that those scriptures began to make sense, and I began to see the harmony of the Bible as I never had seen it before. This does not mean that I accept everything that these brothers wrote or said, but I am grateful to Yahweh that He led me to them. Yes, “While I live, I will praise Yahweh. I will sing praises to my God as long as I exist.” (Psalm 146:2, World English Bible translation) Indeed, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!” — 1 Peter 1:3.
Yes, it is true that God has revealed his truths by means of his holy spirit through the apostles. God, by means of his holy spirit, especially led the apostles into all the truths concerning Christ and what he said. (John 14:26; 16:4-13; Galatians 1:12; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Timothy 2:2) It is true that the truths revealed to the apostles and made available to us are recorded in the Bible itself. (Ephesians 3:3-12; Colossians 1:25,26; 1 John 4:6) Of course, without the holy spirit, these things that are recorded will still be a mystery to us. — Mark 4:11; 1 Corinthians 2:7-10.
And yet, part of the truth revealed by means of the holy spirit was that there was to be an apostasy, a “falling away” from the truth of God’s Word, with strong delusions. (Matthew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29,30; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; 1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Timothy 4:3,4) This falling away had already begun in the first century, with some receiving a different spirit and preaching “another Jesus”; the apostasy was restrained for only a short while. (2 Thessalonians 2:7; 1 John 2:18,19; 2 Corinthians 11:4) The apostasy spread rapidly after the death the apostles and developed into the great “Man of Sin”, or more correctly “Lawless Man”, or “Illegal Man”, a great religious system, which claimed to have the authority to add to God’s Word since their revelation was allegedly of God’s Spirit. The central doctrine became the false teaching that Jesus had to be God Almighty in order to provide atonement for sins. In reality, this doctrine contradicts the basis of the ransom as outlined in the Bible. With this spirit of error in mind, the writings of the apostles were totally reinterpreted to accommodate the error, and many of the Hellenic Jewish philosophies were adapted and added to and blended in with the New Testament, even as the Jews had done with the Old Testament.
Isaiah, in prophesying concerning the stone of stumbling (Isaiah 8:14; Romans 9:23) to both the houses of Israel (Romans 9:6,31; 11:7; 1 Corinthians 10:18; Galatians 6:16), warns us: “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” (Isaiah 8:20, New King James Version) The “law”, of course, is what we call the Old Testament; the “testimony” of this prophecy is the testimony of the apostles, as given in the New Testament. This the way to test the spirits. (1 John 4:1) It is to these and through these scriptures that the holy spirit today gives true direction, and anything not in agreement with these scriptures is not of the light of the day. (John 11:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:5) The distortion of who Jesus truly was and is — who while on earth before his death was only human, a little lower than the angels, who gave his flesh for the life of the world — is one of the greatest stumblingblocks to understanding the true Gospel revealed in scripture. Thus the true Jesus becomes a stumbling stone, not only to the house according the flesh which was corrupted from true doctrine (Israel after the flesh — Luke 13:25-28; Romans 9:30-33), but also the house which claims Jesus, which has also become corrupted from true doctrine through spiritual fornication. — Matthew 27:21-23; Revelation 2:13-15,20-24.
While I believe that God has used various ones at various times to restore various truths, I believe that anyone that God uses will present those truths as from the Bible itself, not as a “prophet” in the sense that Moses, Isaiah, etc., were “prophets”. To the early congregations, Paul said that God “gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds [pastors] and teachers.” (Ephesians 4:11) These ones whom God gave were not perfect, nor were their words and their teachings always perfect. Only by faith do we accept the teachings of the apostles as given to us by the NT writers to be error-free, but only as it was originally written, and not as those scriptures might have been since corrupted by copyists and translators.
Nevertheless, contrary to what many have said, Russell never claimed that to be a Christian, you had to believe his writings. Yahweh alone must be regarded as the leader of His people, and that through the one whom he has appointed as our Pastor (Shepherd — Ezekiel 34:23; Hebrews 13:20); and we must be guided by His Word and constrained by divine love, rather than by bulls, encyclicals, mandates, anathemas, excommunications, epithets, threatening, cajolings or railings that may come from popes, cardinals, bishops, priests, ministers, synods, presbyteries, conferences, societies, governing bodies, boards or presidents, which seek to substitute their own authority in the Church for that of Christ’s, and to teach that disobedience to their orders is tantamount to disobedience to Yahweh. I, as did Russell, believe that everyone who is fully consecrated to God, and who acknowledges Jesus as his head, is united to him in holy service; and that all such are divinely ordained to preach his gospel, whether they serve individually or collectively, in America or in Europe or in the wilds of Africa, and regardless of whether some particular group of brothers in one part of the world has commissioned them, or knows about them or not. Among those who do thus recognize only Jesus as their head there is no division of spirit – despite any outwardly carnal divisions, etc., that may be prevalent.
But alas! Doctrines do get in the way of that unity. The trinitarian, by his imaginations placed upon serveral scriptures, usually claims that one is not a Christian if he does not believe in the trinity. The JWs, doing the same thing with the “organization” doctrine, claim that one has to be united to that organization to be “in the truth”. (In reality, Jesus is “the truth”.) Sadly, many “Bible Students” today are doing something similar with the doctrine of “that servant” and “chronology”.
Russell took a stand against sectarianism, indeed, even the very kind of sectarianism that is displayed in the “Jehovah’s Witnesses” organization. In doing so, however, he drawed great criticism from the denominational leaders. Russell once stated:
Quote:
For some unaccountable reason numerous Catholics have gotten the thought that I am their foe, just as Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Baptists, etc., have gotten the impression that I am their foe. I am a foe to no human being, and especially to no Christian. I believe more fully than do Methodists in Free Grace — that ultimately God’s grace will reach every human being. I believe more emphatically than do most Presbyterians that the Church is an especially elect class, and is now being gathered out of the world to be God’s agents in the ultimate blessing of all the non-elect. I believe with Baptists that only the Elect, the immersed, will constitute the Kingdom of God, although I deny their claim that baptism in water is the real immersion. I hold, with the Apostle, that it is baptism into Christ’s death. Similarly I hold to the great Catholic doctrine that there is only one true Church, founded by the Lord Jesus Christ through His Apostles, nearly nineteen centuries ago.
I am aware that several churches claim to be Catholic — the Anglican Catholic, the Syrian Catholic, the Greek Catholic, and the Roman Catholic. Each claims to be the true Church and reprobates the others as heretical. But I take the still broader, catholic ground. I hold that the word catholic means general; and that any limitation, such as Roman Catholic, Greek Catholic, etc., to that extent denies their catholicity. Perhaps, therefore, I am really saying that I am more catholic than any of these brethren.
I must prove my point or be misunderstood. I hold, and few, if any, will dispute it, that the one catholic or universal or general Church of Christ is the one mentioned in the Bible — “the Church of the First-borns, written in Heaven.” If this be admitted, my next proposition is that the Lord in Heaven records as members of His true Church all the saintly — whether Roman Catholics, Anglican Catholics, Greek Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. — and none others.
Have we not here the one Church, the Catholic Church, the universal, the only Church which the Bible recognizes? In the past we have been too narrow and have supposed that God was as narrow as ourselves. It was on this account that in the past Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Baptists and Methodists persecuted and were persecuted, because each thought itself the true Church. Are we not all getting broader conceptions of our God and of His Church? Do we not see that a part of our mistake was in calling the outward organization the Church of Christ, instead of remembering that the Lord alone writes the names of the Church, that He alone reads the hearts, that He alone is the Judge, and that He alone has the right to blot out the names of those who become reprobates?
RECTIFYING PAST ERRORS
St. Paul wrote against the spirit of sectarianism, already manifest in his day — some saying, “I am of Paul”; others, “I am of Peter,” etc. The Apostle asks, “Is Christ divided?” (1 Cor. 1:10-13.) So, today, if with us, he would ask, “Why Romanists, Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists, etc.? Is not the name of Christ enough?” He explains that these different names of old signified a sectarian spirit, the spirit of division, that failed to recognize the true Head of the Church, His true representatives and His true members. The trouble is the same today. The entire foundation of divided Christianity would disappear and all the true Church of Christ — all real saints — would be speedily manifest, if true catholicity were acknowledged.
Harvest Gleanings Volume I, page 735
The true agreement in Christ is that “if you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (1 Corinthians 1:23; 2:2; Romans 10:9) Being associated with, or a member of, any group or outward organization, whether Bible Students, Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc., does not make one a “real saint”. We can recognize Christ’s disciples by their cultivating the fruit of the spirit. (Matthew 7:16,20; Galatians 5:22) This is on an individual basis, however, not on the basis of whether the person is affiliated with this or that group or organization. Nevertheless, the scriptures show that the “real saints” will not be made fully manifest until after Satan is abyssed. (Matthew 13:43; Romans 8:19; Revelation 20:1-4) Today, we can at times be fooled by “false brothers” who appear to be bearers of light. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15,26; Galatians 2:4; 1 John 4:1) Even a true servant of Christ can become deluded and/or misled with such sectarianism. — Luke 12:42-48; 1 Peter 5:8.
See the study on the four servants:
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php/topic,466.0.html
Those who are seeking to “make manifest” the saints by test of organization, sectarian affiliation with a certain outwardly denominated group or association, or whether one accepts a certain teaching (often which has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into the scriptures) beyond the basics that Paul mentioned, are, to greater or lesser degrees, being deluded, and are unnecessarily dividing the flock of Christ.
Dear Joyfull,
indeed , there are so many parties and denominations between christians because they did not understand the profecies.
The fact is , God did not gave to Russel and to his contemporanes to understand the prophecies
because the prophecies were about them, as God's people , and they fulfilled them without to know that !
Let you read Jeremiah 23 :
20 The anger of the LORD will not turn back
until he fully accomplishes
the purposes of his heart.
In days to come
you will understand it clearly. NIV
and Jeremiah 30:
24 The fierce anger of Jehovah shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall understand it. ASV
With Russell started the "later days" , in 1872 .
Then God , through His Spirit of Truth gave to them (to Russell) the "heavenly bread"
with the purpose to clean themselves according to His purpose :
Titus 2:
14. who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a people for his own possession, zealous of good works.
It was in 1872 when God's Spirit helped Russell to understand what the "ransom" is , and how it works !
and that is the distinctive sign given by God ,
according to which we can recognise BS as God's people !
it is written in Psalm 78:
24. And he rained down manna upon them to eat, And gave them food from heaven.
Psalm 105:
40. They asked, and he brought quails, And satisfied them with the bread of heaven.
From that time on , this group of people had to accomplish all the prophecies which were written about Israel of God to happen in the "latter days"
The angel Gavril was sent to Daniel to tell to him :
Daniel 10:
14. Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days; for the vision is yet for many days:
The most comprehensive prophecy about God's people is the "Song of Moses"
Do read it ! Deuteronomy 32:1-43. see also Deut. 31:19,21.
Today is the time when The Spirit of Truth is giving to God's children the understanding of the prophecies !
Rus,
Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding you; it is just that I am not sure sure who you are, and I am unclear as to what it is you are trying to represent. I have seen others who have posted statements in other forums claiming this and that as being fulfilled in Russell or the Bible Students, and found that they did not believe in the "ransom for all", or that, professing to believe it, they actually denied that ransom similar to the way that Rutherford did.
Some questions that have come to my mind:
Are you claiming that God has made you the one to reveal how these prophecies should be applied, but he did not reveal the application of the prophecies to Russell?
Do you claim to be associated with the Bible Students movement?
What do you understand the "ransom" to be? Do you believe that Adam is included in that ransom? Do you believe that the unjustified unbelievers who are destroyed in Armageddon's battle will be raised as a result of that ransom for all?
Regarding Jeremiah 23:20, I view the prophecy of Jeremiah 23 as directly related to Jerusalem. The prophecy of Jeremiah is directly concerning Jerusalem, representing Israel; Israel, according to the flesh, is contrasted with the "branch" that is to become king over the "land" of Judah in the age to come. (Jeremiah 23:5,6) Brother Russell points out the church is included in this branch, signifying the Christ, head and body, as one person, one body. I agree with this. Thus, the prophecy itself, when speaking of Judah and Jerusalem, is not speaking of the seed of faith, but I can see applications of the prophecy that can be applied to Christendom, and even to the actual seed of faith, by way of example.
The seed after the flesh, however, is the seed that does not now understand, and their understanding is to come after Satan is abyssed, after God's wrath (related this age) has come to an end. The branch (Jesus, including all the seed of Abraham with Jesus) does not begin to actually rule Judah, bringing the foretold understanding, until after Satan is abyssed. Judah, as a whole, rejected Christ, and are thus, as such are included in the world that Jesus spoke of in John 12:47.
Remember that Jesus was speaking here of Jews, not the non-Jewish nations, and yet he speaks of them as having rejected him, but he does include in them in the "world" that is saved through his ransom sacrifice. Thus, the ones directly that Jesus spoke of in Jon 12:47 as of this "world", the world that did not recognize Jesus (John 1:10), were the Jewish people. Thus, in John 12:48, he speaks of their coming forth in the "last day" for their individual judgment. It is in that "last day" judgment that they will come to understand perfectly, and that the prophecy of Jeremiah 23:20 is fulfilled. It is the seed of faith that will participate with Jesus in judging Israel and all the heathen in that "last day". -- Matthew 19:28; 1 Corinthians 6:2; Revelation 20:4
It is then that the prophecy of Ezekiel 16 is fulfilled: "Then shall you remember your ways, and be ashamed, when you shall receive your sisters, your elder [sisters] and your younger; and I will give them to you for daughters, but not by your covenant. I will establish my covenant with you; and you shall know that I am Yahweh." (Ezekiel 16:61,62) At that time, the prophecy will be fulfilled: "In that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness." - Isaiah 29:18.
I may come another day to post regarding the other scriptures.
My name is Rus Virgil and I live in Romania.
I am in a christian association with a brother named Sas Gavril , who proves to be one who received the "anointment" , and after receiving a new understanding from God's word through the Spirit of Truth (John 16:13 ) , he obeyed the commandment from Zechariah 2:7 , leaving the "Organisation of JW's " ,
and from then he is doing a great work of researching the Bible and writing these researches , proved himself to be one of those Jesus spoke about , calling them as "faithful servants" (Matt 24;45 )
unfortunately , he is not speaking english at all , also I am not mastering english , and my vocabulary is very thin , that is the reason I can't comprehend long english articles , and worse , I can't exprime properly my thoughts in english .
here is my first topic on this forum
http://brothersofchrist.forumsland.com/brothersofchrist-about40.html
reding it , you may find something about me and bro. Sas .
His writings in romanian are in the romanian site
and some of them which were translated are in the blog at my signature .
I have read through your posts above , and I saw you wrote very much
if you are the author of all articles at the given links , then you did a great work
I am glad you defense the truth about Bro. Russell ,
we are convinced about his good hearth before YHWH and our Lord Jesus Christ ,
and we are convinced that YHWH used him to fulfill that work (Hosea 12 )
13. And by a prophet the LORD brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved.
This time I don't get into "little things" about the history of God's people during the "latter days" ,
I have a request from you . I know that Bro. Russell have understood the corect meaning of the "Jesus sacrifice" back in 1872 . I need some articles where is shown his work in this area, or his understanding at that time. I never seen or read it before . Can you indicate me a link , or to post a such article (if it is short ) If you want to post it , please do it in the "PROPHECY" section of this forum .
thank you in advance .
respectfully , rus virgil. _________________ http://putinthesickle.blogspot.com/
======================
http://obadiah-blogs.blogspot.ro/
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: Russell and the Atonement
rus virgil wrote:
Hello , dear Ronald !
You are welcomed here,
My name is Rus Virgil and I live in Romania.
I am in a christian association with a brother named Sas Gavril , who proves to be one who received the "anointment" , and after receiving a new understanding from God's word through the Spirit of Truth (John 16:13 ) , he obeyed the commandment from Zechariah 2:7 , leaving the "Organisation of JW's " ,
I think I may have had some communication with you before in another forum.
rus virgil wrote:
and from then he is doing a great work of researching the Bible and writing these researches , proved himself to be one of those Jesus spoke about , calling them as "faithful servants" (Matt 24;45 )
unfortunately , he is not speaking english at all , also I am not mastering english , and my vocabulary is very thin , that is the reason I can't comprehend long english articles , and worse , I can't exprime properly my thoughts in english.
here is my first topic on this forum
http://brothersofchrist.forumsland.com/brothersofchrist-about40.html
reding it , you may find something about me and bro. Sas .
His writings in romanian are in the romanian site
and some of them which were translated are in the blog at my signature .
I have read through your posts above , and I saw you wrote very much
if you are the author of all articles at the given links , then you did a great work
I am glad you defense the truth about Bro. Russell ,
we are convinced about his good hearth before YHWH and our Lord Jesus Christ ,
and we are convinced that YHWH used him to fulfill that work (Hosea 12 )
13. And by a prophet the LORD brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved.
This time I don't get into "little things" about the history of God's people during the "latter days" ,
I have a request from you . I know that Bro. Russell have understood the corect meaning of the "Jesus sacrifice" back in 1872 .
I don't know that Russell actually states "when" he understood the correct meaning of Jesus' sacrifice. In his supplement to the first issue of the Watch Tower, he does outline some of his history, but I do not see that he actually placed a date on "when" he came understand the truth about Jesus' sacrifice. He does state that
Quote:
Bros. Geo. Storrs, Henry Dunn and others were preaching and writing of "the times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy Prophets." (Acts 3:21), and that "In the ages to come, God would show the exceeding riches of his grace." (Ephesians 2:7)
Quote:
The Lord gave us many helps in the study of His word, among whom stood prominently, our dearly beloved and aged brother, George Storrs, who, both by word and pen, gave us much assistance; but we ever sought not to be followers of men, however good or wise, but "Followers of God, as dear children." (Ephesians 5:1) Thus growing in grace and knowledge for seven years, the year 1876 found us. -- 2 Peter 3:18.
Seven years before 1876 would be 1869, thus the best I can say is that he came to understand, through his help from Bro. Storrs and others, the truth about Christ's sacrifice between 1869 and 1876.
rus virgil wrote:
I need some articles where is shown his work in this area, or his understanding at that time. I never seen or read it before . Can you indicate me a link , or to post a such article (if it is short ) If you want to post it , please do it in the "PROPHECY" section of this forum .
thank you in advance .
respectfully , rus virgil.
The first that I see concerning Christ's sacrifice was the article on "The Atonement" that appeared in the September 1878 issue of "Herald of the Morning".
Hello , dear Ronald ! You are welcomed here, My name is Rus Virgil and I live in Romania. I am in a christian association with a brother named Sas Gavril , who proves to be one who received the "anointment" , and after receiving a new understanding from God's word through the Spirit of Truth (John 16:13 ) , he obeyed the commandment from Zechariah 2:7 , leaving the "Organisation of JW's " ,
I think I may have had some communication with you before in another forum.
rus virgil wrote:
and from then he is doing a great work of researching the Bible and writing these researches , proved himself to be one of those Jesus spoke about , calling them as "faithful servants" (Matt 24;45 ) unfortunately , he is not speaking english at all , also I am not mastering english , and my vocabulary is very thin , that is the reason I can't comprehend long english articles , and worse , I can't exprime properly my thoughts in english. here is my first topic on this forum http://brothersofchrist.forumsland.com/brothersofchrist-about40.html reding it , you may find something about me and bro. Sas . His writings in romanian are in the romanian site and some of them which were translated are in the blog at my signature . I have read through your posts above , and I saw you wrote very much if you are the author of all articles at the given links , then you did a great work I am glad you defense the truth about Bro. Russell , we are convinced about his good hearth before YHWH and our Lord Jesus Christ , and we are convinced that YHWH used him to fulfill that work (Hosea 12 ) 13. And by a prophet the LORD brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved. This time I don't get into "little things" about the history of God's people during the "latter days" , I have a request from you . I know that Bro. Russell have understood the corect meaning of the "Jesus sacrifice" back in 1872 .
I don't know that Russell actually states "when" he understood the correct meaning of Jesus' sacrifice. In his supplement to the first issue of the Watch Tower, he does outline some of his history, but I do not see that he actually placed a date on "when" he came understand the truth about Jesus' sacrifice. He does state that
Quote:
Bros. Geo. Storrs, Henry Dunn and others were preaching and writing of "the times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy Prophets." (Acts 3:21), and that "In the ages to come, God would show the exceeding riches of his grace." (Ephesians 2:7)
Quote:
The Lord gave us many helps in the study of His word, among whom stood prominently, our dearly beloved and aged brother, George Storrs, who, both by word and pen, gave us much assistance; but we ever sought not to be followers of men, however good or wise, but "Followers of God, as dear children." (Ephesians 5:1) Thus growing in grace and knowledge for seven years, the year 1876 found us. -- 2 Peter 3:18.
English: http://ctr.reslight.net/sup1879.html Romanian (Google translation -- may be not be very accurate) http://tinyurl.com/d935wd Seven years before 1876 would be 1869, thus the best I can say is that he came to understand, through his help from Bro. Storrs and others, the truth about Christ's sacrifice between 1869 and 1876.
rus virgil wrote:
I need some articles where is shown his work in this area, or his understanding at that time. I never seen or read it before . Can you indicate me a link , or to post a such article (if it is short ) If you want to post it , please do it in the "PROPHECY" section of this forum . thank you in advance . respectfully , rus virgil.
Numele meu este Rus Virgil şi eu trăiesc în România.
Sunt într-o asociaţie creştin cu un frate pe nume Sas Gavril, care se dovedeşte a fi cel care a primit "anointment", şi după ce a primit o nouă înţelegere de la Cuvântul lui Dumnezeu prin Duhul Adevărului (Ioan 16:13), el respectă de poruncă de la Zechariah 2:7, lăsând "Organizarea de JW's", [/ quote]
Cred că am mai fi avut ceva cu tine înainte de comunicare într-un alt forum.
[quote = "rus Virgil"] si de atunci el este să faci o mare munca de cercetare în Biblie şi scris aceste cercetari, el sa dovedit a fi una dintre cele vorbit despre Isus, care cere ca "credincios publici" (Matt 24; 45)
Din păcate, el nu este vorbitoare de engleză de la toate, de asemenea, eu nu sunt stăpâni engleză, şi vocabularul meu este foarte subtire, care este motivul pentru care nu pot cuprinde articole lung engleză, şi mai rău, nu pot să exprime corect gândurile mele în engleză .
aici este primul meu subiect de pe acest forum
http://brothersofchrist.forumsland.com/brothersofchrist-about40.html
REDING acesta, s-ar putea să găsească ceva despre mine şi frate. Sas.
Lui scrisul în română sunt în site-ul românesc
iar unele dintre ele, care au fost traduse sunt în blog-ul de la semnatura mea.
Am citit prin posturile de mai sus, si am vazut scris de tine foarte mult
Dacă sunteţi de autor din toate articolele de la dat link-uri, apoi ai facut-o mare de lucru
Mă bucur că ai apararii adevărul despre frate. Russell,
Suntem convinsi despre bunele vatra înainte de YHWH şi Domnul nostru Isus Cristos,
şi suntem convinşi că el YHWH folosit pentru a indeplini acest lucru (Osea 12)
13. Şi de [u], un profet [/ u] Domnului adus Israel din Egipt, precum şi de către un profet a fost conservate.
De data asta nu intra in "puţin lucrurile" despre istoria poporului lui Dumnezeu în timpul "din urmă de zile",
Am o cerere de la tine. Ştiu că frate. Russell au înţeles corect sensul de "Isus sacrificiu" înapoi în 1872. [/ Quote]
Nu ştiu de fapt, Russell afirmă că "atunci când" el a înţeles corect sensul lui Isus, sacrificiul. În completare la primul numar al Watch Tower, el face niste scheme de istoria lui, dar eu nu văd că de fapt, el a plasat o data la "atunci când" el a venit să înţeleagă adevărul despre Isus "sacrificiu. El afirmă că nu
[citat] Bros Geo. Storrs, Henry Dunn şi alţii au fost predicare şi scris de "The Times de retrocedare de toate lucrurile pe care Dumnezeu hath vorbite de gura tuturor profeţilor Lui cel sfânt." (Fapte 3:21), şi că "În de ani pentru a veni, Dumnezeu va arăta mai mare de bogăţiile sale de graţie". (Efeseni 2:7)
[/ quote]
[quote] Domnul ne-a dat multe ajută în studiu de cuvânt, printre care se afla proeminent, nostru Dragii mei şi în vârstă de frate, George Storrs, care, atât prin cuvânt şi stilou, ne-a dat de mult ajutor, dar am încercat să nu fi urmaşii de bărbaţi, cu toate acestea bune sau înţelept, dar "adepti ai lui Dumnezeu, ca Dragi copii." (Efeseni 5:1) Astfel, în creştere în har şi de cunoştinţe de şapte ani, în anul 1876 găsit noi. - 2 Petru 3:18. [/ quote]
Şapte ani înainte de 1876 ar fi 1869, cele mai bune, astfel, pot să spun este că a venit de a intelege, prin intermediul lui ajutor de la frate. Storrs şi altele, adevarul despre sacrificiul lui Hristos între 1869 şi 1876.
[quote = "rus Virgil"] Am nevoie de unele articole în care este prezentată activitatea în acest domeniu, sau de înţelegere în acel moment. N-am mai văzut sau a citit-o înainte. Poti sa-mi indice un link, sau pentru a posta un astfel de articol (în cazul în care este scurt) Dacă doriţi să posta, vă rugăm să o fac în "profeţie" a acestui forum.
vă mulţumesc în avans.
cu respect, Virgil rus. [/ quote]
Primul care le-am vedea cu privire la jertfa lui Hristos a fost articol de pe "îndreptare", care a apărut în septembrie 1878 chestiune de "Herald de dimineata".
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
