Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: The Athanasian Creed
Most Bible-institutions (be they Christian forums or be they physical churches) have some sort of statement of faith as to what they believe Christianity is about, and sometimes agreeing with it is a requirement to declare oneself a Christian on that board.
Interestingly, I personally have NEVER seen the Athanasian Creed used as such. I have seen the Nicene Creed used in that way. Although the Nicene Creed is supposed to be affirmative of Trinitarian theology, since (almost) every line of it is completely derived from the Bible, a unitarian can affirm it just as easily!
I digress. The Athanasian Creed is sometimes used as a kind of pseudo-biblical theology for Christendom to point at when voicing their stance on the unorthodoxy of unitarianism. But it is hardly ever used as a definitive affirmation of faith because it is almost completely devoid of Biblical support all the way through. Let's examine it; it is rather long, so I'll stick to key areas.
Basic facts: the Athanasian Creed was apparently authored around 500 AD in Gaul (Spain). The exact author is unknown, but it probably was not St. Athanasius, the Creed's namesake. Again, it is currently NOT actively used as an affirmation like the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds.
Quote:
And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity.
Pardon me?
Acts 2
22 “Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— 23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24 “But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. 25 “For David says of Him,
‘I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE;
FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN.
26 ‘THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED;
MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE;
27 BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES,
NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
28 ‘YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE;
YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.’
29 “Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 “And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, 31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY. 32 “This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. 33 “Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. 34 “For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:
‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
35 UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.”’
36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 “For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” 40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!” 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. 42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
So either Peter was lying or he didn't understand "all things that is necessary" for salvation without which all "shall perish everlastingly."
Or else this line is wrong. Do we abide by God's word, or a Creed.
Quote:
Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance.
This idea is complete creation of man. The Bible does not mention Christ and the Holy Spirit and the Father "being of one Substance."
Quote:
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One,
Arguable enough. Jesus did say that He and the Father are one.
But the CHURCH and CHRIST are also "one". That introduces a variable to the notion of what "being one" means. In other words, just because the Son, Spirit, and Father "are one" does not prove that they are a trinity.
Quote:
the Glory Equal,
Hebrews 2:7
You made him a little lower than the angels, yet you crowned him with glory and honor.
According to this verse, Jesus was GIVEN glory by the Father. That logically means that at some point, He had less.
Quote:
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
John 5:30
"I can do nothing on my own accord. I judge according to what I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me."
Almighty Gods aren't limited by others.
Quote:
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords.
There it is! In the guise of the trinity being a "divine mystery," the teaching of the trinity only makes sense BECAUSE IT SAYS it does!
The ONLY reason it doesn't teach polytheism is because the Bible doesn't allow it. So although trinitarianism teaches that there are three Gods, it teaches that these three make up One, despite the complete absense of logic in doing so.
Allow me to elaborate with an example:
this is liken to a little kid stealing his neighbor's remote-controlled car. He did not ask for it, he does not intend on returning it, ergo, he stole it.
His parents have always taught him that stealing is wrong and he is not allowed to steal. So what does the child do? He does it anyway because he wants to, but when asked whether or not he stole the car, he says "Oh, I'm not allowed to steal. So I didn't steal it."
Quote:
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.
Two points here:
1) The necessity of a trinitarian theology is in the confusion as to what "god" means. In the Bible, "God" is used in several different ways: the primary two are God (as we understand it) and "divine". Secondarily "god" refers to a divine ruler. In any event, trinitarianism does not acknowledge this. So when Paul talks about "Our God" being Jesus (of which the grammar is questionable anyway), Trinitarian thought can only allow for it being proof of "Jesus must be God Himself!"
In reality, Satan is also called God.
2 Corinthians 4:4
In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe to keep them from seeing the light of the glorious gospel of the Messiah, who is the image of God.
NOTE that this verse does not give any indication whatsoever that Satan is a "false god": it simply calls him "THE GOD of this world," the "theos" of this world. In that same way, Jesus is "our God." Ergo, the word "theos" isn't as cut and dry as trinitarian theology assumes it is to twist and bend their logical thought to make sense of the Bible.
2)If one cannot be saved without "firmly and faithfully" believing this doctrine, again, then the apostles had many thousands of false converts on their hands! It simply does not make biblical sense, yet christendom ascribes to it.
I apologize that I have not used as much straight-bible support as we all would like: I did the best I could.
With something to refute that derives so little support from the Bible, I, with my pea-sized brain, cannot figure much more that can be done than what I have. Slightly more logic-based than Bible-based, because most of the creed are logical extentions of facts/assumptions rather than Bible reasoning.
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